Thanatos-Zero Sprite Workshop

[Thanatos-Zero]

Just a heads up: that megaman-styled boss looks nothing like a megaman-styled boss.

megaman sprites use clean shapes with barely any shading on them, putting readbility over small details as a priority.
And yes, they NEVER use dithering.

I am well aware of that CO2, but he is liked that way by my client and my colleagues from Sprite.INC.

Anyway, I am not a slave to Capcom's criteria for graphical artwork, especially not after what they did with Legends 3.
I like changes in style to make 8bit artwork more appealing.

[StarSock64]

bro

if it's supposed to be in a certain style, stick to the style. it's not being a "slave" to the style, it's to make stuff fit in and not look stupid because it's an unnecessary distraction. It's not "more appealing" this way and even if your client is satisfied, you could be bothered to go the extra mile because it could be even better. And no offense, but sprites inc. doesn't exactly have the greatest spriters to be listening to. If only 1/2 sites are happy with it, you should at least TRY to get a different result and see where it leads you. Seriously, if you won't even TRY to see what would happen if you took our advice (which is coming from multiple people, so expect your audience to notice too; it's not a coincidence) then there's no point even asking

And I'm just gonna go ahead and take this moment to say why listening to artists tell you that you're a-okay can often be a mistake. When you talk to say, your friend, who just directed a movie, you're probably gonna sugarcoat how you feel about it. Because you know they worked hard on it and you want them to be happy about it. But if you don't know them, and you watch the screening for the first time, are you gonna care how they feel? Do you go to the theater and say, hmm, this movie is really boring and the CGI sucks but...well I know they worked hard on it so I'll try really hard to be satisfied! No, you don't. You say wow, this movie was a waste of my money. You can't always put your full trust in people saying "no, it's fine!!" because things can always be better and your audience as a whole isn't going to be so kind as to just ignore your faults. I'm not saying they're liars. Maybe they just legitimately haven't noticed, or maybe they're just less sensitive to your faults. But that doesn't mean that since it's okay to them, it's time to disregard all others.

[Terminal Devastation]

Or it could be the better spriters in S.I. haven't gotten around to saying that the dithering isn't that good. Since they are busy with other things. Just saying.

Although... Something else needs to be asked. If the client is happy with the sprite, what do the rest of the sprites look like. If they ALL use minor dithering, maybe this wouldn't look so out of play. Just cause its a megaman fan thing doesn't mean the whole thing has to be megaman style. As long as its consistant.

If that IS the nicest sprite, I'd recommend making the rest match that ones style. Would be interesting to see a Megaman-type 8-bit with more shading.
The capes standing curve could use some work however. Might be worth it to remove/clean the farthest highlight. Right now it curves too far below, as if there was a light source below kingman.

[Thanatos-Zero]

I have read and I agree,

Here now once more Kingman without any dithering,

[Thanatos-Zero]

It has been a long time. I restarted to create tiles and sprites. The old graphics regarding Zero are really obsolete.

Now I present you the King Capsule, which is made with the MMC3 Mapper of the NES in mind.


Just to tell you. I am happy for the advice you have given me, but to you the reason, why I stayed away so long away from this site, was your butal honesty. Not everyone of Sprite.INC likes your approach on beginners and oversensitive artists.

By the way, I started not long ago to refine the MegaMan X series sprites for the SNES, for the purpose that they can be used later in Romhacks/Fangames.
And yes, it is a edit which you hate with a passion, but it serves the purpose to enhance the old and golden Megaman X games.


Only the first and second row is completely done.
Since I modified the shading I had to change the palettes as well, as they were originally not made for this style.


Here the palettes unmodified. Pretty ugly, ne?


I took the liberty to change the second white into a dark teal colour for X's eyes.
I am going to further work on this sprite sheet and all the other sheets as well.



Before I forgot, I started months ago on a new, but familiar sprite for Justin3009's Megaman X3 project.
Behold the yet unfinished Gunvolt Mk II.


Once Justin decides to continue to work on the project again, I will continue on it as well. The first thing I will take care will be the legs and then the panels, which cover the barrels for the weapons.


All will be done in time. But first the Sprite Sheets for the X Series on the SNES.
Now please some criticism.

[Bombshell93]

Just to tell you. I am happy for the advice you have given me, but to you the reason, why I stayed away so long away from this site, was your butal honesty. Not everyone of Sprite.INC likes your approach on beginners and oversensitive artists.

I'm mostly lurking today so crits themselves may come in short supply or half-assedness, so I'd rather comment on this,
I understand this peeve I've seen others buckle under it and I had a few months silence because of it (albeit that time I spent getting better at spriting so when I return I may better understand the crits I was getting)

This forum seems to run on tough love, but thats good, its not always easy to tell someone whats wrong with their work in a nice way (most specifically when theres a lot wrong with it) the tough love thing or "brutal honesty" allows us to disregard the possibility of sounding like an asshat and saying what needs to be said.

I always fall back on the ever true, if its on the internet its free for everyone to witness and by extension to judge, if you post something anywhere on the internet, be ready for it to be witnessed and judged.

Anyway to give crits your modified pallet is worse than the original because it doesn't have shades, some seem to pretty much glow, I think you need to try and get the different colours to match each others light-dark curve.

EDIT: as for the mech I like the body but the legs and the feet are quite ugly, the tear drop smooth feet don't conform to the rest of the sprite which is based more around hard surfaces. and the problem with the legs it reads as if its flexing but its a metal pole so it doesn't quite make sense.

[Novally]

What exactly is going on here??

[Gors]

Just to tell you. I am happy for the advice you have given me, but to you the reason, why I stayed away so long away from this site, was your butal honesty. Not everyone of Sprite.INC likes your approach on beginners and oversensitive artists.

look at it this way,

I don't like how taking a vaccine punctures you with a needle and how it hurts.


you might be saying "what is this fatass dude saying I am talking about sprites what do needles have to do with this"

Thing is, not everything that is correct is the way you want it to be. You know that vaccines are good for your health, and how not taking them might make you vulnerable to diseases,even if they hurt like hell. Same is with honest criticism. Arguing that 'Not everyone of Sprite.INC likes your approach on beginners and oversensitive artists' is a dumb excuse to be honest; we are not going to make a harmless needle just because you can't take the pain of it.

Being honest is needed to be an artist. By giving your actual thought on the sprites, you can realize your mistakes and get better at doing sprites. After all, we don't want you to commt the same mistakes over and over by saying 'wow you're great keep it up!!!!'

just my two cents~

[Thanatos-Zero]

I'm mostly lurking today so crits themselves may come in short supply or half-assedness, so I'd rather comment on this,
I understand this peeve I've seen others buckle under it and I had a few months silence because of it (albeit that time I spent getting better at spriting so when I return I may better understand the crits I was getting)

This forum seems to run on tough love, but thats good, its not always easy to tell someone whats wrong with their work in a nice way (most specifically when theres a lot wrong with it) the tough love thing or "brutal honesty" allows us to disregard the possibility of sounding like an asshat and saying what needs to be said.

I always fall back on the ever true, if its on the internet its free for everyone to witness and by extension to judge, if you post something anywhere on the internet, be ready for it to be witnessed and judged.

You are welcome. It is good to have such a board consistent of honest graphic designers, which aim for the top, while they also help others to reach that place of perfection. As for giving criticism, you can be friendly while you can unleash all the criticism.

Example: "A really lovely sprite, but it has so many flaws, which hide its beautiful interior. Let me help you to point them out, so your child will walk on a magnificent path. *Criticsm*. Those are all the flaws I could point out.
Now use the advice I have given you, so your little child can bloom to the beautiful flower I have seen in it.^^

Anyway to give crits your modified pallet is worse than the original because it doesn't have shades, some seem to pretty much glow, I think you need to try and get the different colours to match each others light-dark curve.

So it still needs to be darker, I understand. Hopefully it won't get too dark by modifying the colours. You could tell me which part of the palettes needs better contrast. I may have an idea which palettes needs further modifying, but I want to avoid unnecessary trial and error, if you know what I mean.

EDIT: as for the mech I like the body but the legs and the feet are quite ugly, the tear drop smooth feet don't conform to the rest of the sprite which is based more around hard surfaces. and the problem with the legs it reads as if its flexing but its a metal pole so it doesn't quite make sense.

I wanted to try out something different, as I didn't want to have an near identical copy of the first one. It is too bad, that the legs and feet do not have your approval. I will come back to you, when Justin3009 restarts the project.

Edit:

Look at it this way,

I don't like how taking a vaccine punctures you with a needle and how it hurts.

People have to face the truth, that they are possible wrong and needs to be adviced to find the right path.

you might be saying "what is this fatass dude saying I am talking about sprites what do needles have to do with this"

I understand your metphor. I am not so ignorant as I appear to be.

Thing is, not everything that is correct is the way you want it to be. You know that vaccines are good for your health, and how not taking them might make you vulnerable to diseases,even if they hurt like hell. Same is with honest criticism. Arguing that 'Not everyone of Sprite.INC likes your approach on beginners and oversensitive artists' is a dumb excuse to be honest; we are not going to make a harmless needle just because you can't take the pain of it.

You will be surprised, that needles won't hurt if you distract them from focusing on the possible pain itself. The vaccine or the truth can still be delivered in a different way.

Being honest is needed to be an artist. By giving your actual thought on the sprites, you can realize your mistakes and get better at doing sprites. After all, we don't want you to commt the same mistakes over and over by saying 'wow you're great keep it up!!!!'

just my two cents~

Honesty is important, but you can deliver your messages in a more friendly package. It shouldn't be so difficult to be honest and friendly at the same time. What you messages should portray is this kind message in a nutshell: You are a nice and good person, but your graphics suck and we want to help you to get out of this quality, since we like you.^^

You won't make the needle blunt this way, but distract the patients from the pain itself, while they realise from themselves what is wrong and learn from the lection you gave them in form of the vaccine.

[Gors]

Example: "A really lovely sprite, but it has so many flaws, which hide its beautiful interior. Let me help you to point them out, so your child will walk on a magnificent path. *Criticsm*. Those are all the flaws I could point out.

another example I am not fond of.

Adding cutesy-poo words in-between criticism is not needed. When someone asks me 2+2, I am going to respond 4, not 'my answer, my noble gentleman, is an integer, real and natural number which is succeeded by 3 (three) and preceded by 5 (five), whose name is 4 (four). It is also a number that is a sum of two prime numbers and the first composite number, the next one being 6 (six).' But in this case, the extra beef is actually interesting and informative instead of being pointless sugarcoating.

As long as you aren't insulting when giving criticism, it's ok. 2+2 is 4, nothing more, nothing less.

You aren't a baby or a child anymore, you should just suck the criticism up instead of complaining why it was harsh (obs: it wasn't). When I'm home, I'll properly talk about your sprites instead of ranting on how to give criticism, as this is nto the thread's purpose.

[Thanatos-Zero]

another example I am not fond of.

Adding cutesy-poo words in-between criticism is not needed. When someone asks me 2+2, I am going to respond 4, not 'my answer, my noble gentleman, is an integer, real and natural number which is succeeded by 3 (three) and preceded by 5 (five), whose name is 4 (four). It is also a number that is a sum of two prime numbers and the first composite number, the next one being 6 (six).' But in this case, the extra beef is actually interesting and informative instead of being pointless sugarcoating.

I see, but if you are going to give criticism, act like a reasonable doctor and don't act with the brutal honesty of a Dr.House.

As long as you aren't insulting when criticism, it's ok. 2+2 is 4, nothing more, nothing less.

Indeed, but creating and fixing graphics is not as obvious as solving a arithmethical problem.

You aren't a baby or a child anymore, you should just suck the criticism up instead of complaining why it was harsh (obs: it wasn't).

I know, but the point is not to give criticism without any soul and warmth in it. Some of my colleagues are deeply afraid of this. It makes them feel not being welcome here, as I experienced this first hand by you and your community. I wanted to ignore this feeling of being hurt and instead focus on your advice, but I decided to stay away until now.

I am further discussing this, because I want them here to learn from you, without to fear your criticism.

[Previous]

It's as simple as this: Keep in mind that people offer you their criticism in order to help you improve. That alone should tell you that there is no hostile intention behind it - if they didn't like you, they wouldn't try to help you. All the sugar-coating namby-pamby cotton filling is not worth the trouble - it just takes effort and time to write; you should be happy enough if someone makes the effort of typing down some comments and criticism that may actually have some value.

If I need an ego-boost, I just drop a five-minute doodle onto deviantART and receive three favs in two minutes with only two views.

See, at some point you stop caring about getting responses of the "A really lovely sprite, but it has so many flaws, which hide its beautiful interior. Let me help you to point them out, so your child will walk on a magnificent path." palette because you know it's just filler text.

[Gors]

I see, but if you are going to give criticism, act like a reasonable doctor and don't act with the brutal honesty of a Dr.House.

Honestly I have seen no doctor going "A really lovely sprite, but it has so many flaws, which hide its beautiful interior. Let me help you to point them out, so your child will walk on a magnificent path. *Criticsm*. Those are all the flaws I could point out.
Now use the advice I have given you, so your little child can bloom to the beautiful flower I have seen in it.^^" to a patient before. Sure, he needs to be friendly to a point, but this is just ridiculous. Life isn't beautiful, kid, and you gotta learn it. (and we aren't even that harsh, like, at all)

I know, but the point is not to give criticism without any soul and warmth in it. Some of my colleagues are deeply afraid of this. It makes them feel not being welcome here, as I experienced this first hand by you and your community. I wanted to ignore this feeling of being hurt and instead focus on your advice, but I decided to stay away until now.

If you were hurt by this, then man, I have nothing more to say. This is like, your everyday criticism. Not even my mom acts like you said to me. If it looks bad, I will say it's bad and say how to fix it.

If your colleagues are hurt by this, I doubt they'll lead a normal life because this is the everyday criticism. Just because we don't add a ^v^ in every sentence it doesn't mean we hate you and want to scare you away, and adding them deliberately in my C+C wouldn't be warm or friendly either. It would be artifical, fake and annoying.

I am further discussing this, because I want them here to learn from you, without to fear your criticism.

Then you gotta... grow some balls and accept our criticism as it is? Sure, I can make it less """""harsh""""" as you put it but I doubt I'll change much (because it is not harsh at all).

So, you don't need to be afraid. We're here to help in the quickest way possible.

tl;dr see Previous' post above mine.

[Bombshell93]

I can see the argument from both sides but I'm compelled to side with Gors on this one,
sugar coating the truth may make it easy to swallow but it also makes it easy to ignore, and I have seen this on so many forums via so many mediums, I've especially seen it in classrooms a whole lot,
1 thing that will always up the tension and drag toward hostilities its someone being willingly ignorant to the advice thats given to them, though this isn't always the case and it may seem offensive to expect that of people, it is mostly the case.
The more you sugar coat it the easier it is to consider the statement insignificant and sad as it is many people use it as an excuse to ignore such comments.

Now the only alternative is that everytime someone does something right you reward them, but praise as a reward doesn't get you far because you run into the same problem of sugar coating and rewarding in other ways requires time / resources that I'm fairly sure you would not like to spend on a complete stranger.

This isn't a complicated issue but its a common one, and it may be arrogant of me to say but fearing criticism is a terrible trait.
Any hope / shred of professionalism leaves with fearing criticism, though if your a hobbyist you may think "professional doesn't apply to me" but if you want to improve a clear goal is the skill level of professionals (quality capable of holding the respect and value of professional works is a very obvious goal, regardless if you want to go professional or just become a better hobbyist)

bottom line, take brutal honesty for its honesty not its brutality.

[Thanatos-Zero]

I understand you all. Thank you for your wisdom.
It was for me personally in the past just a hard hit into my belly, which I couldn't really fathom as I wasn't prepared for this kind of criticism. I expected something similiar I had on Sprite.INC back then, when I joined them.
I came now back, because I did grew thougher balls. Just now your comments are read by my colleaguess, so they might lose the fear of you and join these boards with a different mind.

Now let us focus on the graphics. I want to produce properly refined sprites for good SNES hacks.