TSR's Super Smash Bros Thread|SWITCH HYPE TRAIN NOW BOARDING

[Keychain]

Diddy Kong is still really good too. Zero won EVO with him despite him getting nerfed a lot.

[recme]

yeah, zero really proved to people that diddy is still good, despite diddy being nerfed to the max. the matchup against sheik was also pretty bad for diddy kong, so i was surprised when zero took his chances and won EVO.

[Keychain]

He said he's not the best at the mirror matchup with Sheik, and he thought he may as well entertain the crowd.

[BullockDS]

To firmly believe Sakurai is literally specifically bullying you is hilarious tbh

Almost as hilarious as your silly strawmanning bullshit tbh

[Kosheh]

yeah, zero really proved to people that diddy is still good, despite diddy being nerfed to the max. the matchup against sheik was also pretty bad for diddy kong, so i was surprised when zero took his chances and won EVO.

I think that's actually the strategy that Zero was aiming for, and it's a pretty standard one too in the tourney scene. He's basically grooming his opponents via conditioning, but in this case it's much more spread out.
An example of this was in evo in USF4 in 2014, but

SnakeEyez (Zangief) played against Ricky Ortiz (Rufus) with a super conservative Zangief, playing extremely defensively during his first two matches to bait Ortiz into playing more aggressively with Rufus ('cos Rufus pretty much has the upper hand in that fight) SnakeEyez just holds his ground and stays defensive, blocking constantly. He wins the first match by timeout and lets Ortiz win the second one. In the third match, he keeps this playstyle until halfway through the match where he just goes full-out ham and completely wreck Ortiz and his Rufus because SnakeEyez had conditioned him into fighting his defensive playstyle completely wrecking his reads by tossing out jump-ins and Banishing Flats.

Now, it's...a little different when it came to evo. Few people were actually playing Diddy Kong and even Zero himself was sticking with the tourney standards - Zero Suit Samus and Sheik. That's basically all Evo was. Most of the other players were watching Zero's Sheik and trying to figure out strategies to counter it.
Now, when it's the finals of Evo and you're used to seeing Zero's Sheik onscreen and then he picks Diddy Kong (especially when there were no other Diddy Kongs in the tournament), you're pretty much been boned and at this point you're psyched out by the fact that oh god he's playing Diddy Kong I wasn't ready for this waht the hell is this oh my god now I have no stock.

I actually did this myself at local tournaments

At one particular Brawl tournament I attended I bounced between Falco and Marth for friendlies, and getting an idea of the competition's picks. It's especially terrible because a friend I had made had the exact same plan, teasing me that I hadn't seen his main and that I'd be shocked - talking a lotta shit before the tournament started.
When the tournament rolled around, lo and behold I was matched up with him and we both had the same strategy. He picked Falco, thinking he'd one-upped me whereas I picked Ness (who I hadn't played all night) and ended up three-stocking him ending the match with a ridiculous spike into the bottom of Lylat Cruise.
He was so salty afterward I nearly mistakened him for a container of Morton's

And I don't wanna be the smoked butthole here but

I physically flinch every time I read Koopaul´s posts.

"cringe" is a verb that pretty much nails the situation here. "cringe" is to physically flinch, and it's characteristic for people on the Internet to do so in disgust or disapproval

[Gors]

To firmly believe Sakurai is literally specifically bullying you is hilarious tbh

Almost as hilarious as your silly strawmanning bullshit tbh

I am sorry if I didn't argument well - but it doesn't make Koopaul's complaints any better either.

If his complaints were directed to the game quality itself, as in how the game flows, or how the new elements work with the current elements, I would understand. But that is clearly not the case. At least that's not how he makes it out to be.

And even then he's taking his rage to extreme levels - that kind of anger is nocive no matter the complaint. Echoing recme, 

youre kinda being overly-aggressive over a video game. itd be cool to keep this to a healthy discussion.

[Koopaul]

I'm not saying Sakurai is bullying me. Nor do I want this to be a "DK fighter".

I'm just saying Sakurai did a shitty job deciding what characters went into this game. You guys defending his dumb decisions made me snap a little.

See, characters is the part of the game that causes fans to tear their hair out over. Do you see all the reaction videos? Do you see all the rage posts? Do you see the debates? The demands? The cries?

Deciding a roster is SUPER important, and one man cannot decide it on his own. He can't do it. I can't do it. You need a team of people probably.

[Keychain]

Koopaul's not wrong. There are tons of missed opportunities with Smash 4. Sakurai is far from perfect. Don't take this the wrong way, I LOVE Sakurai. I would squeal like a little girl and hug the heck out of him if I had the opportunity to. But he's no God and he is not incapable of doing wrong.

I'm going to speak entirely from what I believe is objective from a game design standpoint.

The 3DS version should not have existed, or at least, Sakurai shouldn't have let it hold back the Wii U version. 3DS can't handle Ice Climbers? Well then it doesn't get it, but not let it prevent the Wii U version from getting them. I can understand wanting the games to have the same cast, but as far as I'm concerned since there's no crossplay, they should've added Ice Climbers on the Wii U version and let that be the only difference in the roster. It's not right to cut a staple character like that for such trivial reasons.

Lucina shouldn't be in the game, as much as it pains me to say, as a huge fan of Awakening and Lucina. Robin should've been the one sole Awakening representative. There was no need to pad out the roster when DLC was being planned. If they held off, added Roy as DLC while there was no Lucina in the game, the complaints would've been much less severe. Perhaps they could've added Lucina at a later date as DLC, with a much more fleshed out and unique moveset.

The singleplayer content in Smash 4, especially Wii U, sucks. You want to earn custom moves? Sorry, you have to farm for gold and tickets to have a chance to earn them efficiently, which can end up going to waste easily because of RNG items or stage hazards. Want to play CLASSIC mode? Sorry, we completely changed classic mode so that you're forced to play incredibly aggravating 8 player matches and turned it into some silly tabletop game. Also Smash Tour is awful, especially compared to Smash Run.

Why do Falco and Fox still have the same final smash after all this time?

Why does Wario still have almost no moves from Wario Land? There is more to Wario than WarioWare.

Why is Little Mac so emotionless? He was always seen smiling in his games, but he NEVER smiles in Smash.

Why do Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, and Bowser make the sounds of generic animals or creatures? They all have very iconic voices in their games, but in Smash they're never used.

Finally, don't get me started on the DLC policy. Charging for N64 maps. Charging 30 dollars for everything but not providing a pack for just the fighters for people who don't care about Mii costumes.

I could go on but I think I've gotten the point across by now. Smash is not perfect, it's not immune to criticism, just like any other product. Just because you're okay with whatever Nintendo hands you doesn't mean the game is perfect and cannot be judged. Just because you don't have problems with the game doesn't mean others aren't allowed to. Smash doesn't do a very good job at representing certain characters, and this changes from movesets to personalities, and that's a fact.

[Ark Kuvis]

I guess it's all really subjective in the end though, Koopaul. Unlike in Brawl, where there were huge A and B list Nintendo characters to make it into Smash Bros (Wario, Diddy Kong, King Dedede, Pit) the Wii though 3DS era wasn't as booming. Sure, there were some big Nintendo games and franchises, but it wasn't nearly the same as the bigger names in Brawl. It made sense to take newcomers from new franchises that existed on Wii (Punch-Out, Animal Crossing, Xenoblade) and some of the newer titles on 3DS (Fire Emblem Awakening, Kid Icarus Uprising, Pokemon X/Y)

It's not a perfect roster, I personally think there are a few too many Fire Emblem fighters, but for a franchise that has had 14 sets of new protagonists, i guess yeah if five of them are in a 50 plus roster fighting game that makes sense. I also think Donkey Kong and Star Fox should have more characters! But considering both franchises didn't do too much new or revolutionary leading up to Smash 4, I get that Sakurai wanted to focus on other characters.

I have my issues with the game too (like Wario having less costumes, being a hidden character, his SIDE SMASH GETTING REPLACED WHAT THE FUCK SAKURAI) but I like the roster? I like the newcomers a lot, I like the DLC, and the only complaints I really have involve sound design and some franchise representation (seriously though why didn't Jungle Hijynx get Wing Ding as a track song, and why didn't PUNCH OUT get an Assist Trophy?!?).

I'm sorry my opinion on the roster differs from yours dude but discrediting my Nintendo fan boner because I agree with a person's decisions for a Nintendo fighting game is kind of a dick move.

[MrYoshbert]

The points of contention with the roster and the amount of single player content and such are all really subjective in the end, though. Some people are okay with it, others think it brings the game down... and then there's the group of people who just don't give 0.025 of a damn.

[Keychain]

That being said though Smash 4 is still my favorite Smash game. It's by far the most polished game of them all.

[Koopaul]

Polished in terms of For Glory. If look at things like Item Play or Stage hazards they're the worst in the series.

Seriously fuck the Pyrosphere.

[Keychain]

That's not really a lack of polish, it's just going overboard with the craziness.

Lack of polish would be not giving us an option to turn off stage hazards, though

[Koopaul]

Holy shit that gives me a brilliant idea.

You know how all we have for item options in the frequency of all items and which items will be on or off?

Well what if you could adjust the options for each item individually? Yeah! Think about it. You could adjust the appearance %, you could adjust how powerful or effective that item is, you could adjust other things like how often the Hammer's head falls off or how often a Capsule explodes.

That kind of customization will allow players to have the Smash experience of their dreams!

I'd figure it'd look like this. You go to Item Options and you see a screen full of items to select. You select, oh say, the Ray Gun. You are taken to another screen that has this:

RAY GUN : (ON/OFF) VERY LOW, LOW, MEDIUM, HIGH, VERY HIGH
Damage : VERY LOW, LOW, MEDIUM, HIGH, VERY HIGH
Knockback : VERY LOW, LOW, MEDIUM, HIGH, VERY HIGH
Ammo : VERY LOW, LOW, MEDIUM, HIGH, VERY HIGH
Fire Rate: VERY SLOW, SLOW, MEDIUM, FAST, VERY FAST

[Darky's Manifestation]

while that would be a pretty cool detail, it will be just a pretty cool detail and nothing more. Infact, next step would be changing the effects and damage of character's. Closest thing we've got to that are custom moves, and they were executed decently enough. It's all cool in theory, but it would only make this easy to pick up hard to master game even more difficult. Also people who prefer to play without items won't start playing with items because of it, that's just a part of the game people decide to not make use of. Just like people who prefer to play with items because it adds another dimension of game play for them.

this game is far from god damn perfect, but it's fun and that's something we can all agree on. Wether you prefer to play with items and wild stages or Fox only on Final Destination; we're all having a good time in the end, and that's what games are about.