TSR's Super Smash Bros Thread|SWITCH HYPE TRAIN NOW BOARDING

[recme]

EDIT: As for ignoring me, I feel very insulted. You do realize that by ignoring me it means you won't see my posts for the ENTIRE forum! Not just here. I can't even send you a PM or an email. You should be more responsible with that feature.

insulted? lmao. its the internet dude. deal with it. also yes, im very aware of the system ignoring you everywhere, and im honestly ok with it. i dont like seeing your posts anyway. :p

also, thanks for the neg. i could care less about internet points on a forum...

Guys, can we talk about how PM died for our sins here recently?

can we also talk about how the dev build was leaked, which contained roy and jigglypuffs new costumes, lyn, knuckles, isaac, and sami? pretty crazy.

even though pm died, im hoping that the community continues to grow and the meta for the game evolves. who knows, maybe we'll get a tier list down the line, haha

[TomGuycott]

I'm interested to find out what their project from here on out is going to be. I never played PM, but it's obvious a lot of time and thought went into it.

[Koh]

They reverse engineered and edited THEIR copyrighted technology and software.

No ground to stand on? Are you for real?

Also Koopaul, in Wario's case he's catering to the "goofy Wario" from WarioWare, as that is definitely popular in Japan. And frankly in other games with Mario Characters involved he's pretty goofy anyway.

Yes, no ground to stand on.  Like I said, it only shows that they once hacked Nintendo's software and modded it.  But it doesn't prove a thing when it comes to a separate project.  The only way they'd know is if they reverse engineered that project, and compared source codes or something.  They'd literally have no case if they tried this.

[[robo9]]

I don't think you fully understand the how complicated copyright law is, especially when it comes to derivative work. Just by releasing a similar, conpetitive platform based fighting game after years of continued hacking and copyright infringement of Nintendo's intellectual property is more than enough for a lengthy, and definitely expensive legal battle if Nintendo so wished, especially if the game is commercial or seen as a direct competitor to their Smash game.

They're not worried because some random dude on the internet told them they're in a legal gray area, they've consulted with actual IP lawyers who without a doubt know copyright better than either you or I. If the professionals don't think the claim is baseless (which it isn't, btdubs) it's most likely not baseless.

[Koh]

It sounds just about as silly as teachers accusing students of cheating when they manage to pull a great grade on the next assignment out of previous mediocre grades. Just by looking at the mediocre grades, if they get a high grade next time, that automatically means they cheated, right? Who's to say they didn't just work their asses off to earn it?

It's no different than this. So they've been working on a mod for Nintendo's game for years. Just because of that history, we must assume that an original fighting game they make after that must be using that same source as a base?

Let's put it in another way. The Yooka-Laylee Team. So they've worked on the Banjo games and know how the underlying systems work. So, with that history, Microsoft should be able to sue them for copyright infringement, because they're making a game very similar in play style to their now owned Banjo IP, and have worked with its source for years, being developers on the team.

Doesn't this sound ridiculous? The entire case would be based on a hunch. Without any solid, definitive evidence to support their claims that the new work is fraudulent, that's as far as they can take it. I don't think even Nintendo would waste money on a case that has a foundation made entirely on a hunch.

[TomGuycott]

Let's put this into an analogy that YOU might be able to understand... From what I understand, you like to make games in your spare time, yes? Even if you don't, pretend that you do just for this argument.

A fan of your work takes your engine without your consent and begins to make small changes to it to better suit ideas that they have, while still being more or less recognizable as your work. However, it is mostly harmless, it is not sold for money, but it eventually gets attention and a following.

Now jump ahead years later. The person who used to edit your engine now releases a game that seems derivative of your engine, changing things like the graphics and sound, but the core gameplay is a derivative. People are now turning their attention to this new product and not your work.

Would you say that's still cut and dry? Or are you going to change your mind because it is happening to you?

[Koh]

It's still pretty cut and dry yes, because I wouldn't have any proof that their new game, that's clearly inspired by my own, was made using a modified engine. Are we going to just say that any games that play extremely similar to other games must be made using those games as a base? Like Golden Axe Warrior versus Zelda 1, or Robopon versus Pokemon?

This is boiling down to the burden of proof. It will fall on Nintendo to present the decisive proof, that yes, they have indeed actually copied their engine and just tweaked it slightly for their new project, because Nintendo would be the one accusing them of such a thing. Otherwise, the courts will just send them home empty handed, because it'll just be a stalemate forever, with the PM guys like "We didn't use it as a base..." and Nintendo like "But you USED TO work with our base!".
,

[Jermungandr]

So I was just reading that apparently Sakurai wrote an article in a recent Famitsu article that he actually didn't want to include Corrin initially because even he thought there were too many Fire Emblem characters. According to him the rest of his staff was pushed for it until he eventually agreed.

Dunno how true this is, he could just be saying that to save face for all we know, but it is interesting if true.

[Koh]

And you didn't post a link to that reading? For shame!

Well, even if it was true, it wouldn't change the fact that it happened, lol. If anything, it'll just pour salt on the open wounds some people will still have over it.

[redblueyellow]

And you didn't post a link to that reading?  For shame!

Well, even if it was true, it wouldn't change the fact that it happened, lol.  If anything, it'll just pour salt on the open wounds some people will still have over it.

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/12/23/496/

I would be interested to hear what his alternative to Corrin was. 6 Fire Emblem representatives does seem excessive, however Corrin's design is something other than the rest of the swordsmen/women. At least Corrin has some unique moves to lessen the impact of over-representation, I'm actually looking forward to trying them out.

[Jermungandr]

That's a good question. Now that you've mentioned it, I too wonder what other possible candidates there were. If the criteria was to pick a title for a soon-to-be-released worldwide Nintendo game, what other viable options are there? It looks like most options just feature characters already present in Smash 4.

Although if recently-released games count ... it might have been fun to have gotten a Yokai Watch character. I'm imagining playing as the main protagonist with Smash and Special attacks backed up by a variety of different yokai. That actually sounds like a lot of potentially goofy fun and now I kinda want it. (Granted I haven't actually played YW yet so I don't know how viable it is).

[Kriven]

Let's put this into an analogy that YOU might be able to understand... From what I understand, you like to make games in your spare time, yes? Even if you don't, pretend that you do just for this argument.

A fan of your work takes your engine without your consent and begins to make small changes to it to better suit ideas that they have, while still being more or less recognizable as your work. However, it is mostly harmless, it is not sold for money, but it eventually gets attention and a following.

Now jump ahead years later. The person who used to edit your engine now releases a game that seems derivative of your engine, changing things like the graphics and sound, but the core gameplay is a derivative. People are now turning their attention to this new product and not your work.

Would you say that's still cut and dry? Or are you going to change your mind because it is happening to you?

You're making a morality argument, not a legal one. I don't really think there's an analogy that will appropriately fit the situation because the laws just aren't adequately suited to handling digital copyright and trademark, even the ones that supposedly handle that...

Essentially there isn't a law against creating an original game after learning how somebody made a commercial game, just like there isn't anything wrong with taking apart a book to figure out how binding works and then opening a printing press (however you can copyright specific lines of code, and you can patent specific game mechanics... I'm not sure how long you can monopolize a game concept for, though). The real problem the P:M team will run into is a costly legal battle they can't afford... even if they're in the right, they'd be bankrupted by the costs associated with proving that.

[[robo9]]

I wrote a long paragraph in response but it wound up being incredibly condenscending, emphasizing how actual IP lawyers recognized the threat and that how they undoubtably know more about copyright and dedicate works than anyone on a Spriting forum

That said, is it too late to trade Corrin for Jinbanyan? I'd be down for a Yokai Watch rep, makes enough sense as Bayonetta

[Koh]

Well, if it's such a threat, then I'd like to ask those same IP lawyers why these, and many more, weren't inhibited at all by copyright laws or lawsuits over copying.
http://www.cracked.com/article_20057_5-i...poffs.html

Apple wouldn't even be able to exist right now actually, as everything they've ever done and claimed to be innovative was just a copy of something else, with a different paint job, lol.

[Jermungandr]

You're missing the point. Whether or not Nintendo could win the case or not is irrelevant. What's important is that the PM team would lose all their money in legal fees just from the effort of trying to fight any accusations Nintendo made, legitimate or not. They don't want to take that risk. Nintendo's legal team is friggin' crazy, man.