Crediting a sprite sheet with no credit "license"

[joronjo]

Hi, i'm new here and I still don't have the hang of the crediting etiquette. What do you do regarding spritesheets that don't give a credit instruction? The one i'm talking about specifically is

http://www.spriters-resource.com/3ds/pok...eet/64167/

[Vipershark]

It's always a good idea to credit the ripper if you use their works, regardless of credit tag and regardless of whether they specifically want credit or not. It's a good rule of thumb to just credit everyone and not have to worry about it.

To answer your question though, in the specific instance where there is no credit tag and they don't ask for credit, giving credit probably isn't necessary. Is it good practice to do so and should you do it anyway? Yes.

[puggsoy]

If someone hasn't bothered to put a tag, chances are they don't care whether you give credit or not. As Vipershark said though, it's always nice to and doesn't hurt.

[DarkGrievous7145]

If someone hasn't bothered to put a tag, chances are they don't care whether you give credit or not. As Vipershark said though, it's always nice to and doesn't hurt.

That sounds about right...

If I may add to this, what about those where permission is apparently required?
To me, it feels only the original developers or artists should have such authority.
In fact, if I were the original developer or artist, and I saw someone posted a rip from my game(s) that said "permission required to use..." , umm...yeah...I might be taking some action. Probably not along the lines of sheet take-down or a C&D on ripping, but the permissions mandate would be nullified.

Are there any solid guidelines in place about such credit tags? (with the exception of something that the original developers actually uploaded, but that should probably be mentioned in the tag, then, shouldn't it?)

Sorry if this is kinda off-topic, but it seems to be similar enough.
Can just delete this post if you feel otherwise.

[puggsoy]

There aren't any concrete rules about tags, but here are some bullet points off the top of my head:

• A tag is not required. In this case you can generally use the sheet as you want, although it is polite to credit the submitter.
  
• A tag can request permission, credit, or both. Some also request that you don't claim the rips as your own, or that the sheet may only be hosted on certain websites.
  
• When permission is requested, that means you should ask the ripper for permission before using their rips publicly.
  
• When credit is requested, that means you should credit the ripper for ripping when using their rips publicly. Obviously it is good practice to credit the original game developers for the actual sprites.
  
• The previous bullet point obviously doesn't count for custom sheets; in this case the submitter is the creator. Regardless of the tag, it is good practice to both ask for permission and give credit when using custom sprites.
  
• If you are asking for permission but are unable to contact the submitter, give credit and state that you tried asking for permission. If they see you using their sprites in the future and ask for you not to use them, do so.
  
• ZIP files may contain a credit.txt file; this serves the same purpose as a tag on a sheet and should be treated as such.
  

It might actually be a good idea to make a wiki page about tags.

[DarkGrievous7145]

There aren't any concrete rules about tags, but here are some bullet points off the top of my head:

• A tag is not required. In this case you can generally use the sheet as you want, although it is polite to credit the submitter.
  
• A tag can request permission, credit, or both. Some also request that you don't claim the rips as your own, or that the sheet may only be hosted on certain websites.
  
• When permission is requested, that means you should ask the ripper for permission before using their rips publicly.
  
• When credit is requested, that means you should credit the ripper for ripping when using their rips publicly. Obviously it is good practice to credit the original game developers for the actual sprites.
  
• The previous bullet point obviously doesn't count for custom sheets; in this case the submitter is the creator. Regardless of the tag, it is good practice to both ask for permission and give credit when using custom sprites.
  
• If you are asking for permission but are unable to contact the submitter, give credit and state that you tried asking for permission. If they see you using their sprites in the future and ask for you not to use them, do so.
  
• ZIP files may contain a credit.txt file; this serves the same purpose as a tag on a sheet and should be treated as such.
  

It might actually be a good idea to make a wiki page about tags.

yep...
still dislike the permission thing for rips. It feels kinda unethical to me when it is the original creators or present copyright holders of the work who should have final veto on the use of them. Custom work is another story, i've even seen some people be quite lax on their usage terms with it...shocks me, really!
anyways...
even with all the effort one took to rip...really seems a stretch to claim authority over the use for something they didn't actually create...
The "only for archive on <x sites>" doesn't bug me, except in cases that site goes down or something... Also, I won't do that as of yet cuz it creates future confusion for me, or someone who finds my rips/customs. There are like three sites I post content to. Some of them may share sprite-rips, among other things with each other... and oh, if one ever changed, or a new one added ...yep... "uh-oh!"

the not claiming as own is totally reasonable.
I kinda wish credit tags mentioned the original devs/artists...actually
but then again, they sometimes can be hard to contact/locate...if even remotely possible

Yes, a wiki page could be a good idea.

[Vipershark]

I've honestly never understood the existence of the permission thing for any sheets that weren't customs. I can understand rippers wanting credit and I fully support that but they can't realistically disallow someone from using those rips without permission.
If you're REHOSTING the sheet without permission that's one thing, but needing permission to use the rips in comics/games/videos seems ridiculous to me.

Obviously if the sheet is custom then you should definitely get permission from the person who made those sprites before you use them, but how can someone who merely ripped them and sheeted them tell you not to use them?

[Petie]

I agree, for the most part, but to play Devil's advocate, work is still involved in the ripping process. Someone spent their own time and effort to compile that sheet. It's a stretch to make this work but it can be argued that, if someone wants to use a sheet that wouldn't otherwise have existed without someone else's effort, it's not entirely unreasonable to ask them to do so (or otherwise, rip the content yourself). Like I said, it's a stretch since there's nothing to be gained by ripping it a second time but I'm just trying to show an alternate thought process.

I think we should come up with a formal answer here though so I'm proposing the following:

• If credit is required, credit the ripper.
  
• If credit is requested, but not required, credit them anyway.
  
• If there is no mention of credit or credit is specifically not required, it's up to you. Common courtesy says to credit them regardless though.
  
• Permission required tags will hereby only be applicable on custom work with the exception of re-hosting permission. If a sheet, even a non-custom sheet, has a tag that says it's only allowed to be hosted on X, Y, or Z and you want to put it up elsewhere, ask the ripper. In fact, this should really be done regardless if taking content from this network to put on another site.
  
• For custom work, credit really should be mandatory and permission is up to the creator. Keep in mind that customs based on existing characters must still follow the rules of their parents (i.e. no commercial projects).
  

I don't really think this is an ethical dilemma or that the original creator should have to get involved in this process. I think it's just a matter of common sense and courtesy but having it spelled out doesn't hurt. If you have any feedback on this, just let me know.

[DarkGrievous7145]

I agree, for the most part, but to play Devil's advocate, work is still involved in the ripping process. Someone spent their own time and effort to compile that sheet. It's a stretch to make this work but it can be argued that, if someone wants to use a sheet that wouldn't otherwise have existed without someone else's effort, it's not entirely unreasonable to ask them to do so (or otherwise, rip the content yourself). Like I said, it's a stretch since there's nothing to be gained by ripping it a second time but I'm just trying to show an alternate thought process.

I think we should come up with a formal answer here though so I'm proposing the following:

• If credit is required, credit the ripper.
  
• If credit is requested, but not required, credit them anyway.
  
• If there is no mention of credit or credit is specifically not required, it's up to you. Common courtesy says to credit them regardless though.
  
• Permission required tags will hereby only be applicable on custom work with the exception of re-hosting permission. If a sheet, even a non-custom sheet, has a tag that says it's only allowed to be hosted on X, Y, or Z and you want to put it up elsewhere, ask the ripper. In fact, this should really be done regardless if taking content from this network to put on another site.
  
• For custom work, credit really should be mandatory and permission is up to the creator. Keep in mind that customs based on existing characters must still follow the rules of their parents (i.e. no commercial projects).
  

I don't really think this is an ethical dilemma or that the original creator should have to get involved in this process. I think it's just a matter of common sense and courtesy but having it spelled out doesn't hurt. If you have any feedback on this, just let me know.

Seems fair

Well, the "ethical dilemma", if any, was non-custom things have permission walls, so yeah...

Anyways, thanks for clearing that up!