Advice for book writing.

[Benny The Miraj]

A while ago, I wrote a large book based on a lot of my characters. I'm actually fairly happy with the story, but... Neither of my BETA readers could seem to get through it all the way. To make matters worse, my former boss is INSISTING I turn it into a graphic novel. I really hate the idea, because it basically means starting over and doing even more work than I put into my book. It doesn't help that I'm a mediocre artist. She says either that, or add pictures to my book, another idea I really don't like as it will downgrade the maturity of the book. I'm trying to write a book for young adults, but kids and adults can read too.

But since she insists on a graphic novel, I'm trying to design my characters to look more mature. I got four versions of the story's main protagonist, a unicorn rabbit hobo named Benny. It's about his struggles in a dark society filled with magic and villains, as well as friends who are more powerful than him. Unlike most stories, the main hero isn't a super-powerful being or a hopeful hero, he's a scrawny, malnourished wimp. At the same time, he's a very kind and gentle soul, and even he gets his fair share of action.

Spoiler

On the left is the normal style I've been working with. On the right is my first attempt at a more mature style. ...Not sure if either work, but then again, how mature does he need to be?

Spoiler

The first one tries to take inspiration of old cartoons. It also gives Benny gloves and a single shoe, and adds smudges under his eyes.

The second tries to be a bit more gritty, going farther outside my comfort zone. I kept the smudges and gave him a bindle-sack as well.

Which form do you guys like the most?

I'm also looking for ways to mature the style further. Two things I will not do, however. I will not give my characters breasts or anything like that. That's going... a little more mature than I want. More importantly, however, I will NOT turn any of my characters into humans/humanoids. There's so many stories out there staring them, I don't enjoy drawing or writing about them, and I would really love to put something different out there into the media.

[DragonDePlatino]

If you want to communicate a mature story, I think the best way to do that is to forego images entirely and leave things up to the imagination of the reader. Once you show your readers the main characters, it can ruin the tone of the story for them. This happens to me a lot when I read books (even very well-written and well-drawn ones) and I usually regret looking up images of the characters. There's very little to gain from adding images and a lot to lose.

Instead, you should focus on the main problem: Your writing is not keeping the attention of your readers. Whether that's due to poor pacing, a predictable plot or uninteresting characters, I don't know. But I do know that if your story is well-written enough, it can easily stand on its own without images. Ask your readers why they're losing interest. If they don't give any reasons, find harsher critics. Close friends and family members are generally poor choices since they're afraid to offend you or put you down. And if you have trouble finding strangers to read your work, just give them little snippets of your story and get criticism on those.

[Benny The Miraj]

If you want to communicate a mature story, I think the best way to do that is to forego images entirely and leave things up to the imagination of the reader. Once you show your readers the main characters, it can ruin the tone of the story for them. This happens to me a lot when I read books (even very well-written and well-drawn ones) and I usually regret looking up images of the characters. There's very little to gain from adding images and a lot to lose.

Instead, you should focus on the main problem: Your writing is not keeping the attention of your readers. Whether that's due to poor pacing, a predictable plot or uninteresting characters, I don't know. But I do know that if your story is well-written enough, it can easily stand on its own without images. Ask your readers why they're losing interest. If they don't give any reasons, find harsher critics. Close friends and family members are generally poor choices since they're afraid to offend you or put you down. And if you have trouble finding strangers to read your work, just give them little snippets of your story and get criticism on those.

To be honest, that's my thoughts exactly. It's my boss that wants me to add pictures/make a graphic novel, but I can't help but agree that pictures would downgrade the maturity. I keep trying to tell her that, but she still wants pictures. I think it's my fault, I originally designed Benny to be this super cute kids character, but I kind of grew out of that idea and wanted to make a mature story, but my boss doesn't want to forget the original cute version.

Well, one BETA reader said they didn't like how the story started, with "There was a planet called Earth. I was destroyed recklessly by its inhabitants. A new planet came to fruition, filled with mythical monsters. Fortunately, yet unfortunately, these creatures are much the same as humans, blah blah blah." I think that person had a point, though, and I might nix that from the story. Another problem is that I feel the story gets darker and darker as it progresses, but then a light-hearted chapter breaks it up before going back to being dark. The light-hearted chapter, however, feels a bit childish, and I might have to rewrite it.

[Kosheh]

i uh

a unicorn rabbit?

i'm kinda tired but i guess i can offer my two cents anyway.

- I think you could probably get away with keeping Benny cute while redesigning his friends, further emphasizing that he's a tiny cute lil weak rabbit.

- Though, if you want Benny to look older, I'd suggest giving him a tuft of chest hair (sort of like your "more detailed" design on the right has, but making it a little...rounder? poofier?) but that's it. Just chest hair. While keeping the old design.

- Why is Benny a unicorn rabbit? You can still keep the character varied by having the horn just be a large piece of something sticking out from somewhere else (like a giant crystal jutting out of his shoulder) and when asked about it, the story's actually kinda grimdark. On top of that, he can find out "oh I can get the powers from THIS CRYSTAL" and activate them later when he gets his chance at Action. of course, he's still cute? but the giant crystal sticking out of his shoulder makes the character design a little more ironic.

- Also over the course of the story, you could just like
keep him cute but his eyes progressively get droopy and his clothes tattered, and then at the very end have him comically somehow shake off both changes to his character

[Gors]

I just took one look and n0pe

totally immature no matter what you do with it



for more maturity in a Graphic Novel, you should use humans. Unfortunately furries are literally the most childish design you will ever achieve

that's all

[Benny The Miraj]

i uh

a unicorn rabbit?

i'm kinda tired but i guess i can offer my two cents anyway.

- I think you could probably get away with keeping Benny cute while redesigning his friends, further emphasizing that he's a tiny cute lil weak rabbit.

- Though, if you want Benny to look older, I'd suggest giving him a tuft of chest hair (sort of like your "more detailed" design on the right has, but making it a little...rounder? poofier?) but that's it. Just chest hair. While keeping the old design.

- Why is Benny a unicorn rabbit? You can still keep the character varied by having the horn just be a large piece of something sticking out from somewhere else (like a giant crystal jutting out of his shoulder) and when asked about it, the story's actually kinda grimdark. On top of that, he can find out "oh I can get the powers from THIS CRYSTAL" and activate them later when he gets his chance at Action. of course, he's still cute? but the giant crystal sticking out of his shoulder makes the character design a little more ironic.

- Also over the course of the story, you could just like
keep him cute but his eyes progressively get droopy and his clothes tattered, and then at the very end have him comically somehow shake off both changes to his character

Benny's sort of loosely based off a creature called an Al'mi-raj. Okay, okay, "lol, slap a horn on a bunny, call it an "al'mi-raj" u did gud thar," and I get it that Benny really isn't a proper al'mi-raj. Though later in the story, they come across a more proper version of the al'mi-raj. Benny's race is sort of a branch off of his kind.

Also, some of his friends are a little less cute, but at the same time most of them could be toned down.

for more maturity in a Graphic Novel, you should use humans.

*Takes a deep breath* No.

Also, anthro characters =/= furry. There are no foxes in the story, no sexual characters (most of the female characters are quite unattractive), and not all the characters are even animals. Yes, a good chunk of the characters have animalistic properties, but that does not make the entire roster of species in the book.

Another thing is that the only people who really, absolutely wouldn't read a book like this are those who have such a skewed stigma against furries/anthro that it clouds their judgement of anything involving them. Most non-furries have a more open mind then that, and if they read that it gets good reviews, they might buy it whether it stars humans or not.

I'd rather just leave the discussion at this, please.

[DragonDePlatino]

I just took one look and n0pe

totally immature no matter what you do with it

for more maturity in a Graphic Novel, you should use humans. Unfortunately furries are literally the most childish design you will ever achieve

that's all

Spoiler

I've never read it myself but it sounds like exactly like what Benny is going for. Just because the main character is nonhuman doesn't mean you can't tell a serious story. I can't remember the source, but I remember hearing a quote that goes something like:

"If you're a good enough author you can make your readers cry over a love story between a talking triangle and a square."

[E-Man]

Also, anthro characters =/= furry.

I think that's what Gors means when he said "furry." Still, since there is a difference between an anthro and a furry, I don't see why it would be too much trouble to use a different word for that kind of distinction.


Anyway, I completely agree with DragonDePlatino's point. Just because it's difficult to write a compelling mature story featuring anthromorphic characters doesn't mean it's impossible. Like DDP demonstrated, it's likely that there is already a similar to what Benny is going for that is commonly accepted as a good mature story (I'm not implying that everyone acknowledges it as such since art is overall subjective).

[StevenB]

I just took one look and n0pe

totally immature no matter what you do with it



for more maturity in a Graphic Novel, you should use humans. Unfortunately furries are literally the most childish design you will ever achieve

that's all

Sometimes it can work in favor of the story to use more childish characters and paint them against a darker setting/story since it creates a kind of disonance. Howard the Duck for example, is one of the more (or at least he used to be) mature Marvel characters and it worked because no one took him seriously since he was just a cartoon duck which added to his isolation. It allowed for a couple of mature themes that were subsequently made lighter due to the character being a duck.

Then there is also Maus, one of the most well-known and well-received graphic novels. The usage of anthro characters (mice vs cats) makest he conflict easy to grasp (the mice are easily recogniseable as weak creatures who are preyed on by literally every predator, as is the case in nature), adds symbolism and makes the novel easier to acces for younger readers without sacrifisng the weight of the material an themes. 

However, I will agree with you that this has become more difficult over the years, especially with the rise of fursonas on dA and whatever. Zootopia is a perfectly fine movie but it came under fire (although granted, just by a vocal internet minority) simply because anthro has become such a negative stigma.

@Benny; I've taken a look at the characters ut I find myself kinda turned away from Benny's design I have to say. You should drop the cartoonish proportions. Especially since iwth bunnies people will immeditaly make the connection with Bugs Bunny which makes it hard to take it seriously. Furthermore, I find the design to be very plain, he;s literally just every other rabbit character every to me. The addition of a horn making him part unicorn also feels kind of farfetched to me. Sorry for not mincing my words on this, but I hope to give you some unfiltered feedback through this.

I think your best bet would be to ask your boss to hire a professional artiist if she feels so strongly about pictures, and maybe get to the bottom of why she wants that so much. 
Furthermore I think you should take Dragon's advice and put your primary focus on improving the story itself. Maybe if you post more info people can help you plot out how to work out the designs of the characters.

[Benny The Miraj]

@Benny; I've taken a look at the characters ut I find myself kinda turned away from Benny's design I have to say. You should drop the cartoonish proportions. Especially since iwth bunnies people will immeditaly make the connection with Bugs Bunny which makes it hard to take it seriously. Furthermore, I find the design to be very plain, he;s literally just every other rabbit character every to me. The addition of a horn making him part unicorn also feels kind of farfetched to me. Sorry for not mincing my words on this, but I hope to give you some unfiltered feedback through this.

I think your best bet would be to ask your boss to hire a professional artiist if she feels so strongly about pictures, and maybe get to the bottom of why she wants that so much. 
Furthermore I think you should take Dragon's advice and put your primary focus on improving the story itself. Maybe if you post more info people can help you plot out how to work out the designs of the characters.

Well, I have yet to try more... rabbit like proportions. Though instead of that, maybe I should try to make his design more closer to that of an actual al'mi-raj, as that's what he's based off of. From the depictions of Al'mi-raj I've seen, they're usually skinnier than normal bunnies with longer legs. ...Of course, I've seen lots of renditions of the creature. Still, it might not be a bad idea to stray away from more cartoon humanoid anatomy.

I do actually keep reading my story, and I do agree: there are quite a few things I could improve on. For example, the tone is a bit over the place. There's also a few villains I'm not entirely proud of that could use fleshing out. And I could probably remove all obvious ties with Earth from the story.

Anyway, Benny lives in a world called Mythica which is a world inhabited by monsters of lore, including Oni, Dragons, gyno/andro sphynxes, etc. ...I feel I have too many monsters based off Japanese Youkai in the story.

...But anyway, the main character makes his current residence in a dumpster in the slums of a large city, which is ruled by his tyrannical and miserly cousin. Benny does what he can to get by, but gets himself involved in the affairs of a serial killer who puts his victims to sleep before killing them. His starting friends are an oni who acts dumb due to a law set by a jealous creature, the wife of the serial killer who's locked in a relationship with him against her will, and an elderly tanuki who runs the soup kitchen that Benny visits every day. Along the way, he will meet friends and enemies such as a large Glasya Labolas who specializes in cold magic, and his even larger friend, a Cerberus with three minds, one of which being more sinister than the last. A good chunk of the story also involves Benny trying to protect a strange aquatic creature known as Carbuncle from all the various badguys.

...Okay, so the premise sounds a bit... strange yet familiar. I don't want to describe the story too much by giving parts of it away, but this is the general synapse of it.

[Gors]

the only thing I can be reminded of when seeing this is Conker and Conker is the polar opposite of seriousness

like i understand you can make serious stories out of cartoon-esque characters. But even in those popular stories the character is in, there is a reason or heavy simbolism under the character design.

well i'm presented with a unicorn rabbit. what does that mean. Does the fact of the character being a horned rabbit have some meaning or not? It is not wise at all to be serious when your character's appearance has nothing to do with what he does or well... stuff


that's my two cents anyway

[Benny The Miraj]

the only thing I can be reminded of when seeing this is Conker and Conker is the polar opposite of seriousness

like i understand you can make serious stories out of cartoon-esque characters. But even in those popular stories the character is in, there is a reason or heavy simbolism under the character design.

well i'm presented with a unicorn rabbit. what does that mean. Does the fact of the character being a horned rabbit have some meaning or not? It is not wise at all to be serious when your character's appearance has nothing to do with what he does or well... stuff


that's my two cents anyway

I almost want to say "well, the almiraj is a seemingly innocuous creature, but deep down lies a vicious, terrible and dangerous creature" and that  it represents some fact that Benny is a very harmless looking creature who turns out to have a lot of power in the story, but unfortunately I'd sort of be lying, as Benny's consistently weak in the story. There's only two real scenes where Benny is in any sort of position of power, and that's like "Once in the middle of the story/the other near the end." Truth be told, there's no particular reason that Benny is an almiraj besides the fact that bunnies are somewhat of an innocuous animal which sort of fits an innocuous character.

Honestly, I'm the kind of person that doesn't tend to think too hard about the species of a character. For most characters, I don't see why there needs to be a particular reason to their species, just as long as the character him/her-self is likable. I've been trying harder to flesh out the lore of his world and each of the species that reside in it than worrying about symbolism or anything of the like. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I don't see why it's a big deal that he's based off no particular species. Is it something people really care that much about?

If it's really that big of a deal that there's no symbolism behind Benny's species, then maybe I could work with the whole "Seemingly innocent and harmless creature who obtains a position of power" type motif for Benny, but that kind of goes against who he is. I dunno, it's just that every other story has the protagonist constantly in the limelight, and I wanted to try and differentiate things by making him a creature who relies on the support of his friends.

Like, what mythical creature do you think fits Benny more?

[DragonDePlatino]

If you need to make your protagonist nonhuman to reinforce their character, that should be setting off some alarms. Its a common mistake for writers to change a character's appearance or species to make them more interesting. A character with an interesting personality but bland appearance can capture the imagination of readers. A visually-interesting but poorly-written character cannot. I've seen a lot of new writers make this mistake and it's a trap I've fallen into myself.

So personally, I would make your protagonist human unless there are some circumstances in the story that require them to be nonhuman. If you make them nonhuman without any good reasons (plot-driven or metaphor-driven) you run the risk of alienating your readers without any benefit.

[StevenB]

the only thing I can be reminded of when seeing this is Conker and Conker is the polar opposite of seriousness

like i understand you can make serious stories out of cartoon-esque characters. But even in those popular stories the character is in, there is a reason or heavy simbolism under the character design.

well i'm presented with a unicorn rabbit. what does that mean. Does the fact of the character being a horned rabbit have some meaning or not? It is not wise at all to be serious when your character's appearance has nothing to do with what he does or well... stuff


that's my two cents anyway

I almost want to say "well, the almiraj is a seemingly innocuous creature, but deep down lies a vicious, terrible and dangerous creature" and that  it represents some fact that Benny is a very harmless looking creature who turns out to have a lot of power in the story, but unfortunately I'd sort of be lying, as Benny's consistently weak in the story. There's only two real scenes where Benny is in any sort of position of power, and that's like "Once in the middle of the story/the other near the end." Truth be told, there's no particular reason that Benny is an almiraj besides the fact that bunnies are somewhat of an innocuous animal which sort of fits an innocuous character.

Honestly, I'm the kind of person that doesn't tend to think too hard about the species of a character. For most characters, I don't see why there needs to be a particular reason to their species, just as long as the character him/her-self is likable. I've been trying harder to flesh out the lore of his world and each of the species that reside in it than worrying about symbolism or anything of the like. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I don't see why it's a big deal that he's based off no particular species. Is it something people really care that much about?

If it's really that big of a deal that there's no symbolism behind Benny's species, then maybe I could work with the whole "Seemingly innocent and harmless creature who obtains a position of power" type motif for Benny, but that kind of goes against who he is. I dunno, it's just that every other story has the protagonist constantly in the limelight, and I wanted to try and differentiate things by making him a creature who relies on the support of his friends.

Like, what mythical creature do you think fits Benny more?

Symbolism doesn't neccesarily need to be the first thing in your mind, it's just that it can help you establish themes and ideas behind a story more interestingly that way. SOmetimes even allow people to interpret certain passages in their own unique way. It adds a deeper layer to storytelling, it's pretty neat.

Obviously you should absolutely design Benny in your vision, it's your story after all. But I have to say I'm starting to get the idea you haven't worked out your story competely yet, so I'd like to suggest going back to the writing board for a while and think about what story you want to write and why. What ideas and messages do you want your story to tell your readers and how are you going to achieve that. Is it neccesary for the story to be dark? Do you actually want that?

Like, what's the reason for Benny being part unicorn? Is he just a horned rabbit or is the unicorn part actually important in the story? Is it actually neccesary to give Benny a backstory ('less is more principle') or explain his situation?

(Also if you want Benny to feel like an inconsequential, dirty street person then maybe consider making him a rodent- like a rat or so)

[Benny The Miraj]

If you need to make your protagonist nonhuman to reinforce their character, that should be setting off some alarms. Its a common mistake for writers to change a character's appearance or species to make them more interesting. A character with an interesting personality but bland appearance can capture the imagination of readers. A visually-interesting but poorly-written character cannot. I've seen a lot of new writers make this mistake and it's a trap I've fallen into myself.

So personally, I would make your protagonist human unless there are some circumstances in the story that require them to be nonhuman. If you make them nonhuman without any good reasons (plot-driven or metaphor-driven) you run the risk of alienating your readers without any benefit.

Like I said, I absolutely do not want a human protagonist, and will not make one. I want him to be non-human because there are so many stories out there that star humans, that I want to book to stand out. I don't feel comfortable going further then that, to be honest.

In my opinion, though, I think Benny is still a likable character in his own right. I'm trying to make him a kind-hearted creature who's meek yet selfless, but at the same time can also make the wrong choice at times. Like I want him to be nice, but not a Gary-Stu.

the only thing I can be reminded of when seeing this is Conker and Conker is the polar opposite of seriousness

like i understand you can make serious stories out of cartoon-esque characters. But even in those popular stories the character is in, there is a reason or heavy simbolism under the character design.

well i'm presented with a unicorn rabbit. what does that mean. Does the fact of the character being a horned rabbit have some meaning or not? It is not wise at all to be serious when your character's appearance has nothing to do with what he does or well... stuff


that's my two cents anyway

I almost want to say "well, the almiraj is a seemingly innocuous creature, but deep down lies a vicious, terrible and dangerous creature" and that  it represents some fact that Benny is a very harmless looking creature who turns out to have a lot of power in the story, but unfortunately I'd sort of be lying, as Benny's consistently weak in the story. There's only two real scenes where Benny is in any sort of position of power, and that's like "Once in the middle of the story/the other near the end." Truth be told, there's no particular reason that Benny is an almiraj besides the fact that bunnies are somewhat of an innocuous animal which sort of fits an innocuous character.

Honestly, I'm the kind of person that doesn't tend to think too hard about the species of a character. For most characters, I don't see why there needs to be a particular reason to their species, just as long as the character him/her-self is likable. I've been trying harder to flesh out the lore of his world and each of the species that reside in it than worrying about symbolism or anything of the like. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I don't see why it's a big deal that he's based off no particular species. Is it something people really care that much about?

If it's really that big of a deal that there's no symbolism behind Benny's species, then maybe I could work with the whole "Seemingly innocent and harmless creature who obtains a position of power" type motif for Benny, but that kind of goes against who he is. I dunno, it's just that every other story has the protagonist constantly in the limelight, and I wanted to try and differentiate things by making him a creature who relies on the support of his friends.

Like, what mythical creature do you think fits Benny more?

Symbolism doesn't neccesarily need to be the first thing in your mind, it's just that it can help you establish themes and ideas behind a story more interestingly that way. SOmetimes even allow people to interpret certain passages in their own unique way. It adds a deeper layer to storytelling, it's pretty neat.

Obviously you should absolutely design Benny in your vision, it's your story after all. But I have to say I'm starting to get the idea you haven't worked out your story competely yet, so I'd like to suggest going back to the writing board for a while and think about what story you want to write and why. What ideas and messages do you want your story to tell your readers and how are you going to achieve that. Is it neccesary for the story to be dark? Do you actually want that?

Like, what's the reason for Benny being part unicorn? Is he just a horned rabbit or is the unicorn part actually important in the story? Is it actually neccesary to give Benny a backstory ('less is more principle') or explain his situation?

(Also if you want Benny to feel like an inconsequential, dirty street person then maybe consider making him a rodent- like a rat or so)

I do feel like a big problem is... I don't know what I want the target age group to be. I want a book that's mostly targeted at teens, but something anyone can read and enjoy. But that might be causing confusion in my story, because the main reason I want it to be dark at times is mostly for the older readers, and I also want to avoid making the story too light-hearted as well. At the same time, I wonder. Like late in the story there's a chapter involving a young boy and his pet bear. Like the species of Mythica, he's based off some sort of legend. In particular, he's based of Kintaro. Yes, I know Kintaro never had a bear, but it's a stereotype I see a lot associated with Kintaro based characters that, honestly, I actually kind of like.

But my problem is the chapter seems very... light-hearted. After coming out of a chapter where two random characters get shot and choked to death, this one feels oddly out of place. I feel like I do have some writing skills, and I've been able to come up with some decent jokes for the book (during the light-hearted parts), I just need to reorganize my thoughts a bit.

As I've said before, Benny's species branched off from the Almiraj, and the horns are a trait carried over from the Almiraj into Benny's subspecies. All of the species in Benny's world are based off some type of monster or legend.

Hmmm, a "far" huh? Well, the world does have a giant rat race, but... they're larger than most races. Still, they're known for being tall, not for being strong, so it might work.