Paraemon's Comprehensive Ripping Project Thread [Expansion Station]

[Paraemon]

So, further on my weird stipulation regarding Transition palettes, guess what I've gone and figured out!



So, the 21st "frame" (actually the 42nd when counting frame-by-frame, since each palette shift is every second frame) is full RGB: 0,0,0. To get to that point, though, relies on the existence of the RGB: 238,238,238 color in a palette line (see the top left square in each set). The rules for the darkening is rather simple. All explanations below rely on the use of the Full with S/H color schemes.

If the palette uses values in all RGB slots - for example, R:102, G:204, B:238 - then the red is the first color to go. Subtract values of 34 per shift until the R value is 0. Then start subtracting 34 from the G value per shift. Once the B value is left, then subtract 34 until you're left with RGB: 0,0,0.

However, if there is no B value, then red still goes first if it is mixed with a G value. If two of any value (for example, R:0, G:136, B:0) is 0, then just subtract values of 34 from the existing color until you reach RGB: 0,0,0.

This is why it takes 20 shifts from the 'white' (R:238, G:238, B:238) to get to the black color. And that's the "fade-out".

To get a fade-in, take the non-RGB: 0,0,0 palettes and flip them vertically, then place them immediately beneath to the 21st line, including the longest one that goes back towards RGB: 238,238,238. If the inevitably shorter columns don't reach the bottom like the longest one does, stretch the bottom-most color of each column until the lowest point aligns with that of the longest colum.

If you want to, you can include the first 20 lines that lead to RGB: 0,0,0 - but I intentionally don't so I don't repeat things, so I copy the middle 19 lines between the start and the zenith of the palette shifts.

Will I still include these in the final releases? Well, not as alternative palettes to full maps or backgrounds or anything like that, can you imagine the inane nightmare that would be? No, I feel as though this would be better left to simpler things like the monitor sprites that I'm intending to implement the transition palettes upon considering Sandopolis Zone's take on the way the transition works, and the individual shifts would be chalked up as alternate palettes on sheets for anyone wanting to animate their own mock-ups of fades.

[Paraemon]

Man, I haven't touched these since early August last year.



As I mentioned at some point previously, in perhaps different verbiage, I undertook a search through the game as to when the enemy, ring and HUD palettes shift based on certain points in the stages. This essentially is everything, minus a few discrepancies which I can address:

Ball Shooter's hit palette doesn't change.
Big Arms' hit palette isn't there because I was too focused on getting the Flash Cycle from the following cutscene, and someone was playing the Spyro trilogy nearby.
The ending versions of these are excluded because, much like the first one under Angel Island Zone, they don't adhere to containing a palette for the rings or HUD because, well, you don't see one at those points.



Acquiring the Guardian's palette shifts in Sandopolis was what fuelled my investigation into the fade palettes.

Also, I'm going to be expanding on the Death Egg Act 2's background sheet (previously complete) after, having essentially played about 90% of the whole game to find all the above information, discovering that it too contains a Flash Cycle, at least until the "full white" part of the cycle seen in LBZ, MHZ and LRZ. The Flash Cycle then directly goes into the fade-out transition, negating the ninth to fourteenth frames so, much like how I intend to extract the post-boss transition from Marble Garden Zone, I'll leave anything that forcing the game out of pause into a palette chart instead of a full visual rendition.

[Paraemon]

So there was another type of transition/fade-out that occurs when you hit a ring and go into a Special Stage. The rules basically work in reverse to the fades used when ending/starting a stage - the values must hit a full RGB:238, with the R values maxing out at 238 first, then the G, then the B. Unlike the other transitions, though, there is no 'fade-in' version.



Capturing an actual transition set through Animget didn't work as well as intended, as many values were skipped over, as if the game was saying "Screw you I want to play Special Stages". What is seen above is formulated as to how it should look, using the right-most shifts between colors as the extent template.

As far as I can tell, there is no green-centred transition fade sets, but given the rules explained thus far for the RGB:0 and RGB:238 fades, it wouldn't be too hard to mock one up. I just won't do it here since it's detached from the project.

In other news, here's current progress on the Flying Battery Zone's outdoors background (the main content is done), with WIP palettes dedicated to the standard transitions. There's a version of the background missing, based on account of the fact that the third one I found is functionally broken. It can be put on the sheet again, but I am kind of loathe to do it since it breaks the rules of the palette structure and steals from another line.

[Paraemon]

So this is going to be my last update this side of Christmas, supposing I don't find something super fantastic in the next 30-36 hours that I absolutely feel the need to share.

First up, a taster for one of the very many things I intend to upload at some point after the turn of the year (most likely around February). I don't want to put it up yet just in case I find anything else or need to add to it, plus its Sonic & Knuckles counterpart is far from ready.



But yeah, that's all the Special Ring appearances I can work out with the Sonic 3 ring palettes. No Flash Cycle is implemented on the sheet since the palette is shifted enough to accommodate the Death Egg cutscene after Big Arms.

Remember about a couple of months ago, when I decided to explore how the Flash Cycles worked?Well, guess what, I can use the Master Emeralds like in that post (at least, from the up to date file)! Before it goes through the standard transition to the ending, The Doomsday Zone has a second Flash Cycle implemented, that, like with the Death Egg Zone's Boss Act before it, goes all the way up to the RGB:238 frame. If you want the ninth to 14th frames, however, sorry, but the Flash Cycle is cut out by the transition to the ending, and the standard of the 14-frame Flash Cycle is that *most* colors must darker than their counterparts leading into RGB:238 when on the way back to the base palette. I'm not saying it's not impossible to formulate them, but I would literally have to post that content for discussion here before taking it into final submission. There's just too much guesswork that would have to be involved.

While I've brought up the topic of the Death Egg Zone, some discussion on its background.



On the left, is the background we see in Act 2 proper. On the right, is the version seen when fighting Great/Kyodai Eggman Robo. Since we have to pay attention to what's going on around Sonic, noticing the difference is somewhat difficult and thereby not obvious. I only actually uncovered it a couple of days ago. While the left version has a standalone sheet already, I won't be implementing the Flash Cycle on it since it doesn't occur in that act. Instead, the right version will have the Flash Cycle implemented on it as occurs at the very end of the stage - work has begun on it.

Other little bits:
Flying Battery's outside background sheet is complete.
Work on Sandopolis Zone Act 1's background is back on track.
...as is that of Act 2.
Rhinobot's base palette has been added to the Angel Island Badniks sheet. That'll be complete and ready for the mass upload, and I'll see if I can sneak one or two more zones' Badniks in with them.

Come hell or high water, I'll have newly formulated Labyrinth Zone and Hidden Palace Zone .zip files ready too.

If I can get it to happen (no promises), I might make animated icons for the sheets where possible/practical.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, y'all!   

Edit! - I just got a bit curious and though it nothing more than a theory, but of course it was entirely possible since it's dependant upon a cycling palette. What am I talking about, you ask? Since the palette that is used for the characters is the same, it's entirely natural that Super Tails would affect Eggman's clothing! *rework time*

[Superjustinbros]

Happy Holidays to you as well, and I'll be looking forward to seeing the Giant/Special Ring sheet in its' complete state next year.

[Paraemon]

Thanks SuperJ! That sheet's been recompleted to a degree, just need to get the Sonic & Knuckles version one ironed out.

Happy New Year guys!



So this is something I've just spent half the evening trying to work out in relation to the Monitors, Animals, Goal Signs and other sprites dependant on Sonic, Knuckles or Super Tails' palettes, and it's been an absolute pain - so far, only the palettes for Sonic's fur shifts to Super is covered.

I'll be fair, there's a lot of struggling going on with this project with these palette variations in mind. The only real one that exists (without looking to the in-game broke sets) is Sonic's on the far left (and similarly, anything standard such as Tails and Knuckles' default). The set ups that go to RGB:238 for the others are the most accurate that they can be with the Flash Cycle rules in mind, but everything from the ninth line and downwards are just a complete failure in trying to mock up.

As such, trying to work on anything that involves the character line of the palette is a major nightmare compared to the ring palettes I posted a couple weeks ago. I could cut out all of the unknowns to save time but it'd break any logical layout for the upcoming sheets and/or create a ton of empty space. A similar issue lies in the Doomsday Zone's Flash Cycle affectation on the Master Emerald.

So my initial timetabling for a mass release for February won't be in the first half of that month unless I get something figured out pretty quickly.    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Paraemon]

It's been a few minutes since I last said anything about it, but this is finally back on track and one-third done!



Also doing small motions to get Labyrinth and Hidden Palace fixed up.

[Ton]

I always liked that background. Nice work!

[Paraemon]

I always liked that background. Nice work!

Thanks!   Here's the rest of it!



The only things missing are the complimentary palettes and notes.

[Paraemon]

So I got a two week gap from university, no assignment work and I've submitted one of the dissertations that I needed to do.

And I'm gaming for most of it, or at least I have been so far. Pokemon, Legend of Zelda... it's really kind of hard to stay off my Switch at the minute. And otherwise occupied with language classes and seeing family. In the gaps where I'm not doing those things, I'm putting some effort into the project.

I'm making baby steps on Sandopolis Zone Act 2's background and the Doomsday Zone's (final release) background, as I can't garner enough attention to them for long enough without wanting to work on other stuff or just play games. After struggling to find something worth ripping and compiling this evening, here's something I just decided to go ahead and work on.



This version of the sheet is going to be far easier as the color variations for the rotors have already been charted and are easy to nab from the game. I just need to get around to charting out Hyper Sonic, Super Tails and Super/Hyper Knuckles' variations for the Sonic & Knuckles version of the sheet. Hopefully then, I can actually get on with the mega issues that are the General Sprites, the characters and the Monitors.

As you'll have seen on the sheet's notes, I've decided to include the Flash Cycle for the Capsules. There's a simple reason for this; in the vanilla Sonic 3 game, we have the Flash Cycle occur during the epilogue cutscene. In the combined game, Knuckles can break a Capsule after his boss. I just decided to integrate the two notions and give something not ordinarily seen in Sonic's story something extra. It also boosts sheet content quite nicely, I prefer people having more to work with.

[Ton]

Neat. I was wondering how this was going!

[Paraemon]

Neat. I was wondering how this was going!

Thanks, and it's going with quite some potholes in the road, haha.



But this shall be complete tonight. Because there's one color used instead of a whole palette, it made better sense to lay it out like that. It'd be nice if this idea could carry over to the Monitors sheets.

[Paraemon]

Just a minor update, but I think I'm getting closer to resolving my Flash Cycle palette issue.

On the left, Sonic's main palette is on the left, and the only one not formulated. Transitions are columns 2-6, Super Sonic are 7-9, and Hyper Sonic are the rest. Using the left palette set as a base, I decided to adjust the RGB values accordingly as the colors changed towards the Super and Hyper color schemes. The only ones I have an issue with are the darker shades in the eighth and ninth columns (Super Sonic's colors), yet they still adhere to the rules based on Sonic's palette, even if it doesn't fit the scheme of the lighter colors in those columns.



Knuckles' palettes are next. Like Sonic, Rad Red's main palette is on the left, and the Super palettes on the right (his darkest column aligns with the cutscene palette given to him when Sonic or Tails are played). Of the three, I think this works the best considering the rules for Knuckles' three colors in the Flash Cycle change - where Sonic's colors align in the first and final row of the Flash Cycle, Knuckles' don't.



And then there's Tails' palettes. While working on these and having foreknowledge that Super Tails affects Robotnik's palette, I decided to practice expansion on the colors while working on the Capsule sheet. This turned out rather well, I feel, and made me want to work on those above.

[Paraemon]

Relating to the palette formulations from yesterday, I took yet another crack (Take 4) at the Monitors sheet, with color content yet to be implemented on the Capsules sheet. All the same, I think I can actually finish it this time.




Now for the main part, regarding Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles palette and general object differentiations!

Think of this as the main series games in Pokemon. Each of a pair of games hold some of the critters the other lacks.

I'll start using an example for the Chaos Emeralds sheets.
On the Sonic 3 sheet, the small versions seen in the Data Select style will contain the colors from that menu and the Bad Ending.
On the Sonic & Knuckles sheet, the menu Emeralds will be included as per the lock-on, and those from the Hidden Palace Emerald Altar.

The Bad Ending set won't be on the Sonic & Knuckles sheet, whereas the Hidden Palace set won't be on the Sonic 3 sheet.

Where rings are concerned, relates to the character palettes as discussed below.

In the case of Knuckles, his Super palette, underwater palettes, and Hyper Sonic and Super Tails' palettes, those will be included on the Sonic 3 sheets on account of the fact that they can appear within the confines of Sonic 3's six zones. The presence of the Flash Cycle during the epilogue in Launch Base Zone also enables a set of Flash Cycles for Knuckles and his aforementioned alternate palettes, which is particular anyway since the same Flash Cycle crops up in full in Mushroom Hill and Lava Reef Zones.

Meanwhile, the Doomsday Zone's Flash Cycle will be handled exclusively for the Sonic & Knuckles sheets, where no Underwater palettes will be present, and all character palettes will, besides those seen in water, be included there; as such, it's a trade off, a lack of underwater colors so a second Flash Cycle can be present.

[Paraemon]

Who wants to gamble?!



The final sheet colors are yet to be determined, which is why there's a whole mish-mash of background colors amongst the graphics. But the core content is covered, I just need to add in the palette notes.