Sonic and... stuff...

[Flare]

I don't really think Sega selling off Sonic to Nintendo is a good idea as people might say it is, I mean, if you look at all the sequel games that Nintendo had made, they kind of have the same stuff over and over again, examples like Mario and Legend of Zelda, yes they're great games, but sometimes, you have to have more than just stomping on enemies or using a whole bunch of items and equipment that you've used before to get past a stage

I think Nintendo has shown us that using the same basic formula with added extras are better than something brand new.
These sequals which are all the same get amazing reviews compaired to the crap reviews Sonic gets.

This is no doubt why they are using 2D game-play in this game.

Personally unless this game is a success and I mean a good success, then Nintendo should seriously think about buying Sonic. Afterall, he is a unique and cool character, and could have so much done with him which Sega just can't seem to do nowadays. And after Brawl they seem to handle Sonic better than Sega have in 3D.

[Yoder]

Flare, I already said that in my above post about VAs.

Geo, just stop being facetious already. That egotistical attitude won't get you anywhere.

Nay, Flare, Nintendo has only shown that rabid fans holding extreme bias give them rave reviews. I'm impartial when I play games, and most of Nintendo's sequels aren't fun at all. The myriad of Pokemon games got old after Silver/Gold. Super Mario Galaxy was literally Super Mario 64 in space.

In actuality, Nintendo and Sega use similar strategies. The only difference is that Nintendo has a brainwashed fanbase that thinks any game coming from Nintendo can neevr go wrong. Sega is put under undue scrutiny, people expecting it always to be more and better. How fair is that?

[Flare]

Yoder you said "Many of the minor characters (everybody except Sonic) got voice actor changes in post-DC games." I was saying that Sonic also was changed, and that they changed after Sonic Heroes not just Dreamcast.

And you have a really stupid view of Nintendo. In fact sequals in general, look at the classic Sonic games which are considered the best of the series, use the same engine updated and have the same style of gameplay. Sonic 3 never had "play with guns", nothing different from the formula before.

Mario Glaxy added things to the existing Mario 64 gameplay. Sonic the Hedgehog 06 removed things from the existing Sonic gameplay, for the love of christ Sonic couldn't kill robots by jumping, he had to homing attack!.

If Sonic games were as good as Mario games then there would be no problem, the fact is that Sonic games have been declining in quality.

[Yoder]

I said that meaning "right after the DC games". Sonic got his VA change later.

Let me guess: You're a Nintendo fan, right? I don't have a problem with Nintendo, but their fans can never seem to accept that Nintendo can ever do anything wrong.
Of course, and the old Mario games are all so vastly different, right? You can't count the one where you could play as Peach and Toad, because that was a graphical edit of another no-name game.

Yeah, they added tired mechanics (spherical gravity physics has been around for a long time) and gimmicky waggling. Most of Galaxy's new features only made it worse than 64.

Yes, recent Sonic games haven't been that great, but recent Mario games haven't either. Mario (not Paper Mario) actually hasn't been in many normal games, being non-party, non-sport, non-mini, and non-combat, in a while. There's really only been Galaxy and New Super Mario Brothers.

[Flare]

Let me guess: You're a Nintendo fan, right?

No I am actually a Sonic fan but a realistic Sonic fan.

Yes, recent Sonic games haven't been that great, but recent Mario games haven't either. Mario (not Paper Mario) actually hasn't been in many normal games, being non-party, non-sport, non-mini, and non-combat, in a while. There's really only been Galaxy and New Super Mario Brothers.

Apart from yourself does anyone else actually belive that today Mario games haven't been great?
Also the only reason Mario hasn't got as many main series video games as Sonic does is because Nintendo spend more time making their games than Sega seem to do. Sonic games usually get realised the same year they are announced.

[Sho_"Rocker"_Daisuke]

Let me guess: You're a Nintendo fan, right?

No I am actually a Sonic fan but a realistic Sonic fan.

I'll believe this when I see it, you seem to be more of a Nintendo fan than Sonic, basically because you really haven't said how Sonic could improve, instead you just listed everything he had taken away and all the things Sega screwed up on

Yes, recent Sonic games haven't been that great, but recent Mario games haven't either. Mario (not Paper Mario) actually hasn't been in many normal games, being non-party, non-sport, non-mini, and non-combat, in a while. There's really only been Galaxy and New Super Mario Brothers.

Apart from yourself does anyone else actually belive that today Mario games haven't been great?
Also the only reason Mario hasn't got as many main series video games as Sonic does is because Nintendo spend more time making their games than Sega seem to do. Sonic games usually get realised the same year they are announced.
[/quote]

yes, Sega has a problem with releasing games that early, but Nintendo makes us wait for about 4 years and then when it finally comes out, it's not as great as it was hyped up to be, anybody recall SSBB?

[Yoder]

If you were any kind of Sonic fan, you would know that Sonc should never be sold to Nintendo. They really did a bad job with him in SSBB, because 3 of his specials were nearly the same (the red costume and green costume were crap too). Sonic Battle's Sonic moveset was superior anyway.

It doesn't matter how many or how few people agree with my views. Truth isn't determined by popular support.

[Flare]

Sega have released unbelievably bad games with Sonic, so why would I want to see the hedgehog go through anymore crap, a true Sonic fan wants what is best for the guy, to see play a game of his that isn't crap. A Sonic's fan's job isn't to defend Sega despite the poor job they are doing at the moment with him.

I don't see what is wrong with saying that Mario is doing better than Sonic, that doesn't mean I am a Nintendo fan at all.

And truth isn't determined by someone who will love Sega even if the Sonic series, gets guns, shows romance between hedgehogs and humans, creates unbelievable loading times, takes out the 360 running of Sonic, removes things from Sonic's past, changes character designs drastically, makes Sonic games focus more on new characters than Sonic and even a bug written engine that you have a hard time moving in... oh wait they already have.

Edit: The voices didn't change right after DC, there were 4 years after SA2 (the last Sonic DC game) before the voice actors changed.
Edit: The games, incuding Sonic Battle, that are considered the best of the new games, the advance and rush series, weren't even developed by Sonic Team, they were developed by Dimps.

[Geo the Fox]

Hey Yoder, I'll stop being "faceit..." "facer..." "face..."... I'll stop having an "egotistical" attitude, when you stop making yourself look like a pompous twit.

"Oh hey, you're a Nintendo fan because you don't worship Sonic like the god he is, and you happen to think Nintendo might make a difference, and since I disagree with that your point is invalid, nintendo sir"

"My opinions are fact because I like men"

"if you were a sonic fan you have my ideals because I'm god"

Really now.

Oh, and concerning that remark about Sonic having three specials being nearly the same.

Two of them. One was a Spin Charge, one was Spin Dash. Spin charge being a reference to the older Sonic games, where you charge up and go. Spin Dash being more of a reference to Sonic Adventure, where you could just tap it, and dash forward quickly with a bit of a jump. They were similar, but not the same. If anything, that was more of a fanservice to help make Sonic playable by old and new fans alike. If you're hating "Nintendo" for appealing to the fans in a creative way, you should be shot. And what the hell is this THIRD, special you think is similar? Cause if the Homing attack is the same as a spin dash, god help the Sonic franchise now. And if you're talking about the Spring Jump, you're mentally retarded.

[Sho_"Rocker"_Daisuke]

Hey Yoder, I'll stop being "faceit..." "facer..." "face..."... I'll stop having an "egotistical" attitude, when you stop making yourself look like a pompous twit.

"Oh hey, you're a Nintendo fan because you don't worship Sonic like the god he is, and you happen to think Nintendo might make a difference, and since I disagree with that your point is invalid, nintendo sir"

"My opinions are fact because I like men"

"if you were a sonic fan you have my ideals because I'm god"

Really now.

Oh, and concerning that remark about Sonic having three specials being nearly the same.

Two of them. One was a Spin Charge, one was Spin Dash. Spin charge being a reference to the older Sonic games, where you charge up and go. Spin Dash being more of a reference to Sonic Adventure, where you could just tap it, and dash forward quickly with a bit of a jump. They were similar, but not the same. If anything, that was more of a fanservice to help make Sonic playable by old and new fans alike. If you're hating "Nintendo" for appealing to the fans in a creative way, you should be shot. And what the hell is this THIRD, special you think is similar? Cause if the Homing attack is the same as a spin dash, god help the Sonic franchise now. And if you're talking about the Spring Jump, you're mentally retarded.

whoa hey, let's try to keep the insulting on a minimum level

[Geo the Fox]

Sorry. I hate other hypocrites.

[Sho_"Rocker"_Daisuke]

Sorry. I hate other hypocrites.

classy, sounds quite familiar to me especially

back to the subject at hand now, I find that one of the things sonic DOESN'T need improvement on, is their choice of music, I find I listen to Sonic music more than anything, more than Metallica, more than ACDC, more than alot of my fav bands, mainly because it's kind of like a different genre and kind of has a category all itself in awesomeness.

now getting to what I think Sonic should improve on and/or think of situations where he can be better, I think that he SHOULDN'T be sold to Nintendo, instead that Sega and Nintendo should start to work together on the games, and work as a team, Sega still owning the rights to Sonic still, but Nintendo kind of cleaning up the riff raff that has been recently displayed

[Yoder]

Okay, the games weren't that bad. They were still enjoyable, regardless of controls/camera problems.

A typical response from a Nintendo fanatic. We supposed "Sonic fanatics" can actually take a step back to see the real situation without the bias that coats the eys of Nintendo followers..

Yeah, Nintendo doesn't develop all of their games either. Doctor Mario Online RX was made by somebody else.

~~~~~~~~

First off, I was my calling you "facetious" was based upon observations and was not meant to insult. Calling me a pompous twit is hardly polite or reasonable.
Geo, stop twisting my words to be what you want them to be. If you're going to be that crude, just leave.
1) No, that's what you said, didn't you? I already said that I have nothing against Nintendo.
2) I never said my opinions were absolute. I was just able to give due explanation.
3) I happen to be a Sega/Sonic purist.

That why I said they were nearly the same. After the Homing Dash lands (and it takes long enough to even hit), it rolls around just like the other two.

You're calling me a hypocrite? Oh, what irony...

~~~~~~~~

Yes, Sho/Rocker, Sonic games do feature awesome music. I like how, even though they have switched to rock, plenty of it still keeps that old 80's techno feel. I find it odd how the recent Sonic games are bashed, not even giving them credit for the music.

I happen to think that Sega can fix Sonic themselves. Unleashed should be the first step toward that.

[Flare]

Uh, yes Nintendo have people develop games but my point is that when Sega doesn't develop Sonic games they get positive reviews, when they do develop games they get bad reviews. Logic tell us that Sega aren't doing as good as job as other developers do.

Some of these games were enjoyable but they never gave you the awhh or amazement that they should.

"I happen to be a Sega/Sonic purist"
THIS IS IT. You insult Nintendo and their fans buy really its you that has this crazy biased look at other people. Nintendo aren't brainwashing they are simply doing a better job and you can't stand it. Sonic fans can see this.

Yyou are being more baised towards Sonic than everyone on the planet is to Nintendo.

[Yoder]

Sega of Japan's only recent game is Sonic Next-Gen (which did have notable camera/control problems). Heroes and Shadow were Sega of America project. SoA should never make main games for the series.

Doctor Mario Online RX, apart from reviewers opinions, was simply the old game rehashed with Miis and simultaneous-play mode added. It was always a clone of Tetris anyhow.

Think for a second about who the reviewers are and where their sympathies lie. A Nintendo fan reviews Nintendo games as great and bashes Sonic games. A Sega fan reviews Sega games as they are and also fairly judges Nintendo games.
So, logic would instead say that the reviewers are biased.

... and Galaxy did gave an "awe" effect? To me it was simply a yawn. Also, its camera went off several times when walking around a small planet.

Being a purist isn't being biased; it is wanting the best for Sonic as he truly is. Non-purists are the kind who think that Sonic should be sold to Nintendo.
Again, I'm not insulting Nintendo; they're a great company. I just think that Sega is equally great (they just happened to not have gotten as much overwhelming fandom as Nintendo has).
Nintendo really isn't doing such a magnificently-better job. At this point, you'll never realize this.

If you just take a lok around, you'll find that the majority of Nintendo fans think that Nintendo is perfect. Sega fans realize that Sega makes mistakes and accepts them.

It is clear that a opinion-ridden debate such as one regarding Nintendo against Sega can never be resolved. I only sought to reveal the folly of many a Nintendo supporter, but this has turned into a full-fledged arguement. You will always find that any fan will be biased to an extent; I only strive to be as unbiased as possible.

~~~~~~~~

Now apart from any further Mario/Nintendo discussion, back to discussing how Sonic is great and can improve.