tbh, I don't enjoy the ludicrous speed most competitive settings require (competitive board games and card games are stupid fast), and that's true with Melee as well. I think this is probably a big factor in why I prefer SSBWU to SSBM.

Although momentum-drop when jumping is definitely bullshit.

So Shots Fired was a great tournament. PM too good

Aw damn, there was a P:M tournament being streamed? Why do I always miss these?

Because Twitch is stupid and doesn't list PM as a game anymore

(03-01-2015, 09:58 PM)Iceman404 Wrote: icemans long ass post

this whole experience sounds like it was a lot of fun. everything i read is pretty much the reason why i want to play melee. you have free movement with your character and you can be creative with combos. sometimes, it gets boring playing brawl/sm4sh because its easy to predict everyones movements by the constant rolling and dash attacks and predictable recoveries/down-throw, uair. a game with more flavor and freedom is something id love to see in the new smash games. its a shame sakurai pretty much hates the competitive smash scene and flat out ignores what they say.

although this is the case, you can make the game appeal to casuals and competitive people. its exactly what melee did and nobody had a problem with it in 2001

Even though I'm not a part of the competitive Smash scene (especially since I live in The Middle of Nowhere, where the only kind of "competitive" gaming is for Halo or CoD), I will have to say that Melee is my favorite Smash game. Always has been, is, and always will be. Even though the Wii U version of Smash 4 is quickly becoming my second favorite Smash title, I will have to admit that, while it is a vast improvement over Brawl and the N64 SSB, it still doesn't feel as "refined" as Melee.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love SSB4, I'm just saying that I still think Melee is better. Plus, Melee also holds a huge place in my heart because it, along with Mario Kart: Double Dash!, helped me out through a very tough time in my life. Seriously, Melee and Double Dash mean the world to me.

(03-02-2015, 09:30 PM)Mystie Wrote: it still doesn't feel as "refined" as Melee.

I have to disagree. SSB4 is far more polished and refined than Melee, but it's that same kind of polish that makes it stale. Nintendo's franchises of late have all suffered from this to some degree. They are edited to such an extent that some of the charm is rubbed out.

Oh my GOD, I thought it was just me who thinks some newer titles are a bit "overpolished", but I thought I'd get my ass kicked for such ridiculous word usage. This is especially apparent with MK8, but I'll save that insightful experience for another day. :V

(03-02-2015, 10:27 PM)Kriven Wrote:

(03-02-2015, 09:30 PM)Mystie Wrote: it still doesn't feel as "refined" as Melee.

I have to disagree. SSB4 is far more polished and refined than Melee, but it's that same kind of polish that makes it stale.

didnt you just create a paradox in a way? you sorta said that melee was better since it wasnt "overpolished" as ssb4

I don't see the problem with trying to make a game look and feel as clean as possible.

Isn't that what people want more of in games nowadays (i.e., more developers giving two cares about presentation)?

I don't think he means visual polish specifically

(03-02-2015, 10:44 PM)recme Wrote:

(03-02-2015, 10:27 PM)Kriven Wrote:

(03-02-2015, 09:30 PM)Mystie Wrote: it still doesn't feel as "refined" as Melee.

I have to disagree. SSB4 is far more polished and refined than Melee, but it's that same kind of polish that makes it stale.

didnt you just create a paradox in a way? you sorta said that melee was better since it wasnt "overpolished" as ssb4

Mm... I said SSB4 can be stale, and it definitely can be that way, but that doesn't mean I enjoy it less than Melee. I don't honestly see the paradox. Melee's lack of polish, however, makes it a way more explorable type of game. You don't get railroaded into certain actions because the physics are less defined.

Essentially, I feel like Nintendo's games have been pretty scripted lately. This doesn't mean that I think they're bad games or that they aren't as good as their earlier titles, but they're hitting this uncanny valley. Cutscenes and voices have such practiced work that it comes off less enthusiastic than SM64's "It's-a me!" and more like an over-rehearsed sitcom. Character movement is far more restrictive than it ever has been with the characters literally snapping into a path. This makes the visuals more polished, sure, but only by virtue of limiting the angles from which a player can approach a situation.

I don't feel lucid enough right now to actually elaborate on what I'm trying to say, but it isn't about visuals (Wii U's visuals have been pretty great).

In terms of Smash, I totally get what you mean, and it's what I mentioned earlier. Smash 4 and Brawl's physics feel very scripted and limited. An easy way to say it is that a lot of the values are...

'Fixed' Values

It's what creates the more sticky feeling when you run and jump, or how wall and floor techs (pressing R when touching a surface after flying) can suddenly halt the entire game and return to their fixed animation speed, even if you were just blazing about at 999%. Smash 4 itself has a lot of fixed values for things that makes your movements consistent no matter what the situation is, rather than transitioning momentum. Everything behaves like intended 100% of the time with no variation, whether this is a good or bad thing is up to preference. I myself prefer a game where momentum is carried through everything.

---------------

Out of Smash though, I still get what you mean. The newest games are certainly polished but they lack the a lot of the quirkiness of the older titles. I get a really different feeling from Mario Kart 64 and Double Dash vs Mario Kart 8eq2jqj2dl;dkd why do I keep bringing this up? Maybe I should just expand on what I mean in another topic so it makes more sense, but I can't wait for the imminent flack I'll get for it. :V

Off topic: I'm interested in hearing what you have to say about Mario Kart 8.

Perhaps I'll write up a long analysis on what I like and dislike about it sometime this week to revive the thread and spark discussion. It's a very similar topic of "too much restrictions/polish".