(07-25-2015, 10:14 PM)Keychain Wrote: I think Megaman and Pac-Man are future staples alongside Sonic. Unlike Konami, Nintendo seems to have close ties with Capcom and Namco.

Something I wonder though. Will Smash 4 DLC characters be DLC characters for the next game, or can we expect DLC characters to be in the roster by default? Will be interesting to see.

It would be interesting if they kept the DLC in the next roster, but I doubt it'll happen. Maybe Mewtwo might stay in the base roster of Sma5h, but Shulk will end up being DLC. Maybe Sma5h will end up taking the Street Fighter 5 way of DLC. There are a lot of variables here. Maybe they will offer up Dark Pit as DLC, and he'll have a completely overhauled moveset, who knows?

And while I agree that Pac-Man and Mega Man totes should be future staples (along with Ryu, man wasn't THAT guy a great surprise?) we don't know how to predict the future. Which is why I totes feel like they are the first guys in the running for cuts.

(but seriously guys we're speculating way too far ahead in the future here)

I started using more Mario and Donkey Kong online. I actually mained Mario in Brawl/PM, but switched to Yoshi during Sm4sh. However, him and Donkey Kong are surprisingly fun to use, the latter might not be that great but I definitely have fun using his meteor smashes and his side b.

Donkey Kong is one of my favorite characters to play in Smash 4. I'm so glad he's got his roll instead of the dumb kick he had in Melee/64 (Can't remember Brawl)

(07-26-2015, 12:37 AM)Koopaul Wrote: An alt costume is good enough to represent the Dr. Mario series. He doesn't need his own spot on the CSS. Alph could certainly use his own spot on the CSS.

As for Dark Pit, I think it pissed me off more that Sakurai put so much stuff from Uprising.

If you're gonna make last minute clones, why do it for series that already got newcomers? Why not make a clone of Diddy for Dixie? Could have been the exact same moveset and I would have been happy... Sort of.

the question is, what defines a spot on the CSS? why shouldnt dr mario have his own slot in this iteration of smash? just because he doesnt deserve it? how does one deserve to be on the roster? by being vastly different as an character? like what sakurai said, these additions were harmless to the css, so making them have their own slots isnt that big of a problem.

the only reason they were made as clones was because theyre animations/attributes didnt fit with the person they were copying. as in this case, sakurai felt that people would miss dr.mario's melee moveset, so he made him a clone and gave him his own moveset, because mario has changed since melee. thats the only reason why dr.mario is a clone. otherwise, he'd be an alt if mario never changed

kid icarus was revived, of course a lot new stuff from that game would be added. if a dead series was brought back to life, wouldnt you add stuff from it to smash bros?

because making dixie a clone of diddy wouldnt do dixie justice. i imagine that if they did that for this version of smash, you'd probably rant in the thread and say that dixie had more potential or whatever. if we're lucky, either she or king k rool will be dlc as a new character.

like i said, the kid icarus series was revived, so of course they were gonna add another character from that series. plus, dark pit was a popular request in japan, so thats another reason why dark pit was put in. its only to please the fans.

all characters are there for a single reason - it all boils down to appealing the fans. Every clone character has its own reason for existing, such as having an alternate playstyle and different characterization. It´s not hard to understand this.

Character roster is also subjective. You claim to want characters that deserve the spot more, but in the end, who cares? If you keep your own expectatives so goddamn high, it´s obvious you´ll be sorely disappointed.

Also "having a spot in the CSS" is not a big deal, as in it´s not the ultimate gift a character can receive. It´s probably as easy as adding a new variable in the character list, and that´s why they made clones that way. It´s simpler to have it that way, and it´s not like they took other "worthy" characters´ spots anyway.

Clone characters have been around in so many games. See Mortal Kombat 3, or Street Fighter Alpha. The tendency for them is to get more personal development as the time goes, so if anything, there´s the hoping Dark Pit will be in the next iteration, with a more different moveset.

(07-26-2015, 12:37 AM)Koopaul Wrote: As for Dark Pit, I think it pissed me off more that Sakurai put so much stuff from Uprising.

If you're gonna make last minute clones, why do it for series that already got newcomers? Why not make a clone of Diddy for Dixie? Could have been the exact same moveset and I would have been happy... Sort of.

well, ya see
Sakurai's team already had access to a ton of assets from Uprising, already made for Uprising on the 3DS, and that's why you see so many Kid Icarus enemies in Smash Run.

it's pretty much the same thing with Dork Pit lol. It's a lot easier to add him last-minute than like, actually make an entirely new model for Dixie and think up a moveset (it's not like clones are actually just the result of laziness - it's actually a differentiation in playstyles enough to justify making a new character. Fox/Falco, Ganondorf/Falcon actually played differently enough to warrant spots on the CSS, unlike characters like Alph in this game.

(07-25-2015, 02:01 PM)Jermungandr Wrote: The most annoying thing about the Smash 4 menus is the fact that they were clearly designed with touch-screen navigation in mind, but for some reason they chose not to include that functionality. Is that really such a difficult thing to implement?

fun fact that doesn't entirely solve the problem:

Sakurai's wife, Michiko Sakurai creates the GUI for all of the games that Sora Ltd. works on. Including this one.
Sora Ltd. is literally Sakurai and his wife.

stop talkin shit about sakurais wife!!!!!!!!!!!

(07-25-2015, 07:57 PM)Koopaul Wrote:

(07-25-2015, 04:10 AM)NICKtendo DS Wrote: Let's cut Falco, Ganondorf, Toon Link and Roy while we're at it.

Even if just a few people like the clones (which I believe is more likely a less vocal majority), those who don't like them have the option not to choose them. If they're cut, those who like them are simply screwed. It's like stealing candy from a baby and throwing it in the trash, just because you don't like raspberry flavor.

What's the difference between Dr. Mario and Ganondorf? Not as fighters in Smash but as actual characters in the Nintendo universe. It's like you don't get what I'm saying here.

I wasn't mad they made clones, I was mad they made the wrong clones. Alph being his own character makes more sense than Dr. Mario. Again it's not about fighters, its about the actual character.

Also, cuts are inevitable. They cut Squirtle, Ivysuar, Ice Climbers, Snake, and more. If they're going to cut anyone, it might as well be the fighter who literally is just a costume swap.

Except I do get what you're saying and I couldn't disagree more.

Look, I'm all up for discussion on who should be in Smash Bros. That's a fun subject that never gets old. What kind of crazy dream matches can you make? Like I want Tails in Smash Bros. so I can have Mario Bros. versus Sonic & Tails matches, or whatever I can think of. The idea is fun and gets me excited.

What I'm getting sick of is discussion on who should be cut (or downgraded to costume swap, whatever), because that's taking things away. That's not fun. If a character gets cut in the next game, it's the devs' decision. We'll simply have to deal with that. Sakurai never wanted to cut shit, but he has to. You on the other hand claim the clones to be wrong. If you don't like them, that's your opinion and I respect that, but wanting them gone or demoted to costume swaps doesn't sit well with people who like them. It's backlash waiting to happen.

(07-26-2015, 06:34 AM)Kosheh Wrote: fun fact that doesn't entirely solve the problem:

Sakurai's wife, Michiko Sakurai creates the GUI for all of the games that Sora Ltd. works on. Including this one.
Sora Ltd. is literally Sakurai and his wife.

stop talkin shit about sakurais wife!!!!!!!!!!!

Another Fun fact: Michiko is also my mother's name.

(07-26-2015, 12:37 AM)Koopaul Wrote: Anyway my point with Dr. Marío is that he's literally just Mario.

You know, I wanted to jump back to this point because of one counter argument that I can come up with this.

Look at Ryu and Evil Ryu.

Evil Ryu is pretty much Ryu except he has his own character slot in the street fighter games he's in.

This kind of echo's Gors' point a bit but consider that, if players wanted to play a different version of one character with different attributes into the game to enhance it in those fighting games, why not in Smash? In Smash 4 Dr. Mario is literally the same character with the same moveset that he had in melee, which was pretty much a direct clone of Melee's Mario. And in Smash 4 Mario has the same moveset from Brawl.

So maybe not everyone wants to play the Mario from Brawl and they want to play the Mario from Melee in the form of Dr. Mario. It adds a level of game play that, I think can appeal to both fans of melee and brawl at the same time for those who have played as Mario.

You could also apply this logic with Marth/Roy/Lucina. It's really more in point that if you can come up with more than one moveset for a character then it should at least warrant another slot anyways.

Melee Mario? You mean because he has the Tornado? One move? Listen. No one liked the FLUDD. Everyone wanted Mario to have the Tornado again. Why have two characters just for that reason? Just give Mario the Tornado! It's so simple.

The problem with Smash is that it's not just another fighting game. It's a fighting game that handles IPs from all over Nintendo. And here's the fucking part that FUCKING PISSES ME OFF SO FUCKING MUCH... It truly truly truly is what many people first look at when they see the Nintendo universe. That means it is, for many, their first impression of Nintendo and their greatest impression of Nintendo. That means because Kid Icarus got three characters on the CSS while Donkey Kong got two, people will think that Kid Icarus is a better and more important series than Donkey Kong.

I am NOT making this shit up. You do not know the power of Smash and the awesome responsibility Sakurai has making this game and deciding what goes in. This is a game that can make or break franchises, shape famdoms and more.

So people want to have two Mario's because one plays more like this and the other plays more like that?

That's incredibly assinine when you look at the bigger picture. A slightly different playstyle doesn't justify a character. Not when your dealing with a game that is MORE than just about playstyle. We're talking about Mario. Mario! THE MARIO! Amongst other legends like Link and Samus and Pikachu. Movesets and gameplay mean shit compared to the weight of these characters.


EDIT: You know what? Fuck it. You guys are right. In the next game screw having new characters in because they're beloved icons, lets just add Tanooki Mario, Gold Mario, Dark Mario, Dry Mario, Pixel Mario, Evil Mario, and Mario 64. As long as they have different playstyles and a different movesets that all that matters!

uhh, i know its probably not my place to say this, but youre kinda being overly-aggressive over a video game. itd be cool to keep this to a healthy discussion. thanks.

anywho, back to discussion.

no one liked fludd? you cant speak for everyone. some people were turned off by it and some others werent. even though one move was taken away, it didnt stop mario mains playing their favorite plumber.

but hey! sakurai threw a curveball at us! even though dr. mario was an alternate costume, he and his team went through the extra trouble to make him a character, just to please a few extra people. nothing's wrong with that, right?

and it wasnt one moved that was changed. dr mario was made to be stronger and slower, in order to make the difference greater between the two. now those who thought mario was too fast and weak can play dr. mario. its just another option that was very thoughtful of sakurai and his team.

a lot casual players experience nintendo through smash bros. however, just because kid icarus has one more character than donkey kong does not stop the player from being curious about donkey kong. after playing smash 4 for the first time, i started getting curious about the dk series, believe it or not. its not like i had to look at mario/pokemon's rep first to see if the dk series is worth my time. same goes for f-zero, metroid, and earthbound

moveset and gameplay mean shit? i dont understand that point at all. movesets make a fighting game what it is, and smash bros is a fighting/party game. movesets not only have to be (a little) accurate to the games, but it has to work in the fighting genre. without those things in mind, youre probably going to have a bad game. if smash wasnt good or fun to play, nobody would care for it. i can care less about how much kirby or zelda is represented. if the game is bad, im not playing. the same probably goes for many other people.

Sorry I lost my shit. It always annoys me when someone tries to justify a character being in the game because of gameplay and not because of the character itself.

What I mean by gameplay meaning shit is that gameplay should mean shit when deciding what characters get in the game. Do you think they put Sonic in Brawl because he offered a unique gameplay experience? Hell no! They put him in because people love him. People love Sonic as a character. He could have played like shit in Brawl, but people would be still happy to see him.

I mean, think about this. Does anyone really love Dr. Mario? Not the fighter, the character. Probably not too many. Roy had tons of people wanting him to return, but how many of those people actually love Roy the character? How many of those people who demanded his return even knew the game he was from?

It's sort of disgusting. They say they love this character, but they really don't. I love Nintendo. I probably love it more than most of you. That's why I feel this way.

So yes, gameplay means shit when deciding what characters get in.

EDIT: @recme What on god's green earth in made you "more interested" in the DK series after playing SSB4? Because the game added almost nothing new for DK that Brawl didn't already have... Unless you never played Brawl. So yeah, I don't believe it.

Being honest, Melee's trophy gallery did more to make me interested in other Nintendo franchises than the playable characters ever did.

Dr. Mario is the only puzzle-exclusive character playable and I doubt something from Tetris works as a character. A stage on the other hand, with Dr. Mario tied to it, I can see that happen.
You know, call me a not-Nintendo fanboy or whatever, but I'll defend the shit out of every character currently playable, whether I like them or not. HOWEVER, I'd preferred Dixie Kong over Dr. Mario, Ridley over Lucina and any other F-Zero character over Dark Pit, but I'll take what we can get. Mega Man is playable, so I already have no reason to complain.

I dont usually get to this point but I physically flinch every time I read Koopaul´s posts.

It´s ok having your opinion, but literally everything you posted here was to bash the game for not having enough DK.

Now I understand not having more stuff from your fave franchise, but again... to be this frustrated and touchy over a videogame for aesthetic reasons is really pathetic for the lack of a more accurate word

It´s ok if you don´t like a game. That´s alright. But I think it gets old really fast when you say that every fucking time.

I am a believer that everything is the way it is because of game design and demographics. To firmly believe Sakurai is literally specifically bullying you is hilarious tbh

I mean. If Sakurai went and added two DK characters as DLC right now, you would stop hating the game. That´s how shallow and unfounded the hate for your game is. You hate the game mainly because it is not DK: The Fighting Game.

Don´t get me wrong. I like DK like anyone else. But you don´t see me bitching everywhere for SSB4 not having Snake. Chill the hell out, man. Stressing over a game doesn´t sound healthy at all

(07-27-2015, 02:22 AM)Koopaul Wrote: EDIT: @recme What on god's green earth in made you "more interested" in the DK series after playing SSB4? Because the game added almost nothing new for DK that Brawl didn't already have... Unless you never played Brawl. So yeah, I don't believe it.

diddy kong was the strongest character in smash 4 when smash 4 was released, which lead to him getting popular in the community. during the hoo hah phase, i bought dkc2 to see how diddy's game played.