Smash 4 is disappointing mainly from a single-player perspective... I can play 64/Melee/Brawl's various solo modes and have a good time for quite a while. For some reason, Smash 4 feels comparatively naked in that regard.

(12-21-2015, 07:01 PM)TomGuycott Wrote: It's pretty easy to get disappointed when you have half of gaming history to pick characters from and you can only have short of sixty.

No, that's not the problem. The problem is picking the right characters for your limited roster.

Sakurai made nothing but bad choices throughout this whole thing. Why? Because he doesn't care about making a game that satisfies everyone. He wants a game that satisfies himself.

He has his own personal vision for everything. For everything, both big things and even small things. Donkey Kong and Bowser have wierd animal noises for voices. Why? Because that's how Sakurai wanted them to sound. It doesn't matter if it makes no sense, he's going to portray those characters how HE wants them.

Though, past Smash Bros games were pretty good about satisfying everyone. This game had some good choices too; Mega Man, Little Mac, Robin, even Duck Hunt

Quote:Sakurai made nothing but bad choices throughout this whole thing.

I think this is a hyperbolic statement. He really dropped the ball with choosing Corrin as the last non-ballot character but the rest was decent.

(12-21-2015, 07:42 PM)Koopaul Wrote:

(12-21-2015, 07:01 PM)TomGuycott Wrote: It's pretty easy to get disappointed when you have half of gaming history to pick characters from and you can only have short of sixty.

No, that's not the problem. The problem is picking the right characters for your limited roster.

Sakurai made nothing but bad choices throughout this whole thing. Why? Because he doesn't care about making a game that satisfies everyone. He wants a game that satisfies himself.

He has his own personal vision for everything. For everything, both big things and even small things. Donkey Kong and Bowser have wierd animal noises for voices. Why? Because that's how Sakurai wanted them to sound. It doesn't matter if it makes no sense, he's going to portray those characters how HE wants them.

It's almost like it's his game or something.

(12-21-2015, 07:35 PM)Kriven Wrote: Smash 4 is disappointing mainly from a single-player perspective... I can play 64/Melee/Brawl's various solo modes and have a good time for quite a while. For some reason, Smash 4 feels comparatively naked in that regard.

You know, I feel like that a lot of what made the classic modes in the past 3 games actually made them good just because we had all these little side things as a mini game that were put in.

Target Smash, Board the Platforms, Race to the Finish, etc.

I mean shit the least Sakurai could have done was added that trophy rush minigame into the classic mode in between the final normal character round and the first custom character round on the Wii U version. Hell personally I think that the 3ds Classic mode should have been expanded on in the Wii U instead of some strategy type board game put into it.

I feel like Sakurai wanted to put more emphasis on the multiplayer experience. Not that there is anything wrong with that but you know, there's just alot of things that could have been done differently in that regard.

(12-21-2015, 07:42 PM)Koopaul Wrote: Sakurai made nothing but bad choices throughout this whole thing. Why? Because he doesn't care about making a game that satisfies everyone. He wants a game that satisfies himself.

Honestly I disagree with this statement because we got Pac-Man, Cloud Strife, Mega-Man, Ryu, Bayonetta, etc. How that satisfies only himself is really beyond me because I remember there being alot of hype around those characters.

We get it already, neither K. Rool nor Dixie have gotten a spot on the roster, and alot of veterans were cut. Tough. But to say that Sakurai has made nothing but bad choices and only made this game to satisfy himself is a pretty big exaggeration just because there were certain characters that didn't get in.

Let the matter go to rest already. Chances are sooner or later someone is going to figure out how to modify the game so deeply that we can at least get cut veterans into the game, maybe even more. Who knows.

Honestly, I do think that a great part of the experience in the "Classic" Mode of the previous games was the mini-game rounds, like you said. It would have been great to have seen that implemented a little bit... I would have been happy with an all-star gathering of the ten best "Break the Targets" stages and playing through a random one each time.

(12-21-2015, 07:42 PM)Koopaul Wrote:

(12-21-2015, 07:01 PM)TomGuycott Wrote: It's pretty easy to get disappointed when you have half of gaming history to pick characters from and you can only have short of sixty.

No, that's not the problem. The problem is picking the right characters for your limited roster.

Sakurai made nothing but bad choices throughout this whole thing. Why? Because he doesn't care about making a game that satisfies everyone. He wants a game that satisfies himself.

He has his own personal vision for everything. For everything, both big things and even small things. Donkey Kong and Bowser have wierd animal noises for voices. Why? Because that's how Sakurai wanted them to sound. It doesn't matter if it makes no sense, he's going to portray those characters how HE wants them.

picking the right characters? what are the "right" characters? everyone has their definition of right characters to choose, so why make a fuss about that?

"sakurai has made nothing but bad choices." im guessing making this game and not leaving us with brawl as the final entry is a bad choice.

i dont think anyone really cares about the stupid sound effects characters make. diddy kong can say "hail hitler" for all i care, im still going to have a blast while playing with friends.

why do you even post in this thread??? nobody really gives two shits on the negativity you always bring forth. seriously, go complain on youtube comments or something, because im getting sick of seeing you bitch about every damn aspect of the game, and how you expect it to be a perfect game that fits all of your needs.

I do have to agree with Recme. It's getting ridiculous, Koopaul. You've been a steady stream of negativity on these boards for a while and it gets ME frustrated always seeing this stuff. Smash 4 isn't a perfect game, and probably never will be. I'm not 100% pleased with the Roster either, and I could nitpick at things about Smash 4 til the day I die. But I have better things to do than play a game that doesn't make me happy. Fortunately, Smash 4 DOES make me happy! So I'll probably continue to play it and post things about it!

Move on, man.

Why are you allowed to post happy thing about Smash but im not allowed to post negative things? That hardly seems fair.

Don't worry Koopaul, I feel you. I still think Male Gaze: The Character is a god awful choice, Cloud is awful to play against because Limit Break is ridiculous, and I really think the dude who turns into a dragon sounds more like some 14 year old's fan character.


I mean, where's Ray-Man? K. Rool? Isaac? Takamaru? The Great Waluigi? Bandana Dee? Sukapon? You know, actual Nintendo characters with company history? I mean hell, look at the other 3rd party characters. She's nowhere near the status of Megaman, Sonic, or even Pac-Man.

But I mean, I'll just go back to playing with my space man and walking carrots and Badass the Dinosaur

On the thought of "Characters Whose Voices Aren't Right" (and I have been significantly bothered by this at times, I'll admit. Where's Grant Kirkhope's satisfyingly deep "Cool" whenever I taunt?), it would be neat to have some kind of all-star voice talent selection. I have multiple thoughts here, and I won't lie: this evolved out of a desire to satisfy multiple languages.

So the Smash game is about celebrating Nintendo and its various historical iterations... and I've always thought that could go beyond specifically what character were on the roster. It's an unwieldy thing to wish for, but wouldn't it be neat to pick which voice your character was using before the battle started, like with colors? You can just flip through the names of voice actors and where they played the character (including international voices), and that can bring something new to the table. For instance, if you were to pick Spike Spencer as the voice actor for Marth (he played the character in the little-known Fire Emblem OVA anime), the character would go by "Mars" since that's what he was known as in the dub. Just something that would go a long ways towards making the game more diverse without having to fall on the roster.

Honestly I think I get more of a kick out of seeing how great the characterization for these icons has been in the Wii U era, and this little touch would just be so much icing on that cake.

sorryifi'mfallingintofantasysmashterritory gameisoutanddooneandidontwanttobitchaboutitbecauseitsgoodoverallandiwouldratherdrooloverfantasysmash

Editing to Add Because I Forgot: Koopaul's negativity can be annoying, sure, but I think that's an annoyance bred from a different perspective and different values. For instance, this was said:

"i dont think anyone really cares about the stupid sound effects characters make."

This statement is wrong on thousands of levels. The "stupid" sound effects characters make have bothered people to such an extent that an entire community has been built around replacing them. Treating this like some kind of non-issue, like the characterizations of these icons, is a trivial matter isn't the right way to go about it. So it doesn't matter to you. So it doesn't bother you. That doesn't mean other people aren't entitled to expressing the way they feel.

Koopaul doesn't like the game, he wants to express that dislike of the game, maybe he even wants to have a discussion about how the game could have been improved or why people would like the game the way it is. I think it doesn't matter, though, because he hasn't personally attacked anybody. Some people are starting to do that. That's wrong. If his negativity is that annoying, just ignore it. I don't know if anybody else has seen Inside Out (I think most of you have?) but Sadness has its role to play. Shutting it down just because it gets to be annoying or tiresome or whatever is wrong. Combat it, debate it with, but just like, don't stab it with spears?

Basically thirding what Koopaul and Kriven said. What everyone must remember is that this is a discussion forum, first and foremost. This means that, as long as they are on topic and aren't attacking a poster personally, every post is valid, whether you like it or not.

To give a similar example of what's happened here...I'm sure a good number of us are sick of seeing Undertale everywhere at this point, especially on the art sites like DeviantArt. But what right do we have to tell the other artists to stop posting all this fanart, even if we're tired of it? It's getting so bad that it's actually starting to rival the amount of Sonic fan characters and art out there, but it's their right to draw whatever they please, much to our dismay.

With all that said, I don't even own Smash 4 on any system, but I've been keeping an eye on the characters they're adding from other companies, just to see what sort of representation there'd be. Even I'm appalled by how many Fire Emblem characters there are compared to Nintendo's other more popular franchises, and feel some other characters, even their older more obscure characters, would've been a better choice. Mike Jones from Startropics, their own American IP, would've been great to see. Obviously, we can't say "Well it was an American thing only, so it can't," because many Japan only things got in. Sakurai just puts whatever he wants in, which is fine in the sense that it's his game and all, but that doesn't mean we can't disagree with his choices.

It's more that we have heard Koopaul's stance on the subject many, many times, and not from different points of view, but rather than the exact same way. I can almost 100% create a post by Koopaul without even knowing how he really feels on any given day.

When you drag on the same thing over and over again and we've already heard the opinion a thousand times, it starts to get grating. And by the design you just pointed out, we do have the ability to write our own distaste for that kind of repeatative posting.

Yes, you do have that ability. But you can't tell him to stop posting what he wants either, as long as it's on topic. See where I'm going with this? You can give your opinion on an opinion, but you can't stop that opinion from being posted. Just remember to not attack the opinion holder at all. If it bothers you that much, just ignore it. Easier said than done on the artsites with the endless ocean of Undertale fanart still being posted daily, but...I don't actively post on those submissions telling them to stop either.

My opinion is that I wish you and Koopaul should stop posting in annoying, caustic ways. But I'm not forcing you to stop, it's my opinion.

Also nobody is talking about undertale.