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2D Zelda Higher Resolution Community Project - Printable Version

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RE: 2D Zelda Higher Resolution Community Project - Koh - 04-17-2016

I can see what you were trying to accomplish (did you use the Oracles artwork for reference?), though, I think you might see my point now...since this is an 8-bit sprite, you have to avoid shoving in a lot of pixels in small spaces like that for readibility.

Link's face looks super busy, to the point I couldn't tell what i was looking at at first. The reason the Four Swords Adventures Link was able to do the details they did was because they had more colors to work with, usable for softness and subtlety within a larger block of color. But since there are only 3 colors to work with here, everything stands out harshly, and putting that much together on a small space results in less readibility. While detail is indeed nice to have on a sprite, it's not only complimented with additional space, but also additional color.

Let's take a look at the evolution of the Warrior sprite from Final Fantasy 1.

NES Warrior Sprites Here: http://www.spriters-resource.com/nes/finalfantasy1/sheet/10555/

This is the original. Since they're only working with 3 colors, they need more larger blobs of color for readibility.

PS1 (Also for WonderSwan Color and GBA) Warrior Sprites Here: http://www.spriters-resource.com/playstation/finalfantasy1finalfantasyorigins/sheet/8242/

The sprite is about within the same dimensions as the original, but has way more colors to work with (16 colors), which allows them to add more detail. It's detailed enough so you can still tell what you're looking at even from a distance, while also still simplifying some things so it doesn't look busy.

PSP Warrior Sprites Here: http://www.spriters-resource.com/psp/finalfantasy1/sheet/38274/

Double the resolution, and all the detailed goodness. Feels like completely new sprites, like they didn't even stem from the PS1 sprites. But they also have even more colors (I believe, 32 colors?), so they have additional means to add softer details on the sprite without making it look busy (like the additional lines within the hair to denote more strands, or the armor breastplate details, or the hint of angry eyebrows).

RE: 2D Zelda Higher Resolution Community Project - Valo - 04-17-2016

(04-17-2016, 10:21 AM)Koh Wrote: -post-

I actually still fail to see your point. having a boomerang for a head isnt healthy, it might swing around to kick him in the rear later.

I'm going to give you half a point on the busy details. I could probably tone it down some and still detail it more than yours. But to not even try because it MIGHT not work perfectly is a pretty poor excuse.

And yes, additional color can and does help readability, however it is not always needed to define shape. And having too much empty space with poor shaping, color or no color, is going to look...welll...not good.

And lets break down that last psp fighter example. A lot of the added detail is reshaped line work, added fingers, better shaped limbs and plates. This is all done not with the addition of color but through better base art. Now lets bring back to the original.Without reshaping the head in any way, we are left with readable but dare i say BROKEN details. What details were left ambiguous in the original dueto hitbox and tile limits are replaced with off and muddy looking details. I'll bring you back to the head. There is a lot you can do to reshape that and make the ears look like ears, but instead we opt to leave it look a boomerang power up. there are a lot of details you can add to clean it up without even reshaping the ears. You could add the sideburns and have the ears stand off from the face better simply from having the sideburns act as a border. 

There is a difference from having a few unreadable details and having no details to read. That is the key issue here. As silly as it sounds, with your major criticism of mine being too many pixels in a small space, mine is the inverse, so much space with not enough pixels.

RE: 2D Zelda Higher Resolution Community Project - DragonDePlatino - 04-18-2016

Whoa. That escalated quickly.

The fun of the experiment is seeing what details people add so I actually like Valo's Link a lot. It's faithful to the blonde-haired design of the time but stays faithful to the original sprite.

RE: 2D Zelda Higher Resolution Community Project - Koh - 04-18-2016

(04-17-2016, 11:30 AM)Valo Wrote: Valo

-post-

Who says I didn't try though?  Maybe I did it when it was first suggested, but saw it looked awkward.  Seeing is believing, so...

(04-18-2016, 07:15 AM)DragonDePlatino Wrote: Whoa. That escalated quickly.

The fun of the experiment is seeing what details people add so I actually like Valo's Link a lot. It's faithful to the blonde-haired design of the time but stays faithful to the original sprite.
I'm not saying not to try, but you still have to be mindful of readibility, and Link's face on his looks really busy; it could be the big eyes, or it could be another reason with all the pixel clutter.

Let's just show what I mean.

Well, seeing is believing, so why don't we just try a bit of everything, with proof that it doesn't look good.

First, the base with no changes.
[Image: hyueB8s.png]

Alright, so lets try some fingers.
[Image: q5fs1Rk.png]

Looks awkward doesn't it?  It's just one pixel for the right hand (on the left) and three on the left hand (on the right).  Maybe a poor choice of color, perhaps?  Would it look better if it were the green instead of the black?

[Image: bhqtl3w.png]

Sort of, but you can barely tell they're even there.  And in the world of spriting, if that's the case, it's the same as it just not existing at all, so those are out.

Well, how about we try a mouth?

[Image: Ro9OQ8p.png]

Now his expression looks less neutral and a bit different, even though it's just two pixels.  We can try changing the color again.

[Image: IV9y75V.png]

Not as dreadful as before, but once again, it's not adding anything of value being there compared to when nothing was there before.

Well, what about extending his hair details?

[Image: pYp0Nbd.png]

More of a match to his hairstyle in the artwork, with sideburns identified.  This is the one edit that seems at least decent, but then when you think about how the sprite is animated (flipping), you realize that the non-symmetrical nature of it will make the animation look awkward.

RE: 2D Zelda Higher Resolution Community Project - Terminal Devastation - 04-18-2016

Honestly, I think the two of you are trying so hard to be right using your own design principles/values, that you forget to try to achieve the others goals using your own techniques. In other words, Koh's currently trying to use clutter to prove simplicity is best when Valo's using further detail to show it can be detailed better, instead of Koh trying to add detail through simplicity, and Valo trying to add detail simply.

As an attempt to show what I mean, I gave this a go myself. Honestly I think either of you could do better, but maybe it'll give some ideas at least?

[Image: zwXubxa.png]

RE: 2D Zelda Higher Resolution Community Project - Koh - 04-18-2016

You're absolutely right, it's boiling down to subjective tastes. I do like the direction you took yours in more, though the arms look a bit off. Outside of that, I think you did a jolly well job done~

RE: 2D Zelda Higher Resolution Community Project - DarkGrievous7145 - 04-18-2016

Now that I'm back from LD35, I think I might give this a shot, but first, lunch time!

Also, IMHO, if one is going to make "HD" versions of the assets, some more detail probably should be added, but maybe that's just me. Either way works, I suppose, but I will say that for consistency's sake, imagine someone was going to actually make a game with this, perhaps there should be a specific style to use, just sayin'

RE: 2D Zelda Higher Resolution Community Project - Red Haired Bastard - 04-18-2016

(04-16-2016, 11:11 PM)JazzGW Wrote: [Image: image.png]

My spriting skills are rusty, but here's something I tried to work with. It looks okay from afar, but zoom in any closer to notice the many quirks Tongue.

My main gripe with trying to smoothen these older sprites is that they're so primitive from the graphic limitations that just smoothing them (as opposed to redrawing them as DragonDePlatino did) makes it really difficult to not make the character look like an expressionless robot. Pretty much why I added the white glow in Link's eyes.

With that said, I'd probably prefer smoothening + adding detail technique like Dragon's over what Koh was talking about with the "2x resolution" thing. But to each their own c:.
I'm getting some intense Megaman X for IOS vibes.

RE: 2D Zelda Higher Resolution Community Project - Koh - 04-18-2016

(04-18-2016, 02:26 PM)DarkGrievous7145 Wrote: Now that I'm back from LD35, I think I might give this a shot, but first, lunch time!

Also, IMHO, if one is going to make "HD" versions of the assets, some more detail probably should be added, but maybe that's just me. Either way works, I suppose, but I will say that for consistency's sake, imagine someone was going to actually make a game with this, perhaps there should be a specific style to use, just sayin'

Well, that's just the thing.  Remember, there's no restriction on how many different versions of something there can be.  If everyone on this forum wants to do their own spin on Link for the project, they're absolutely free to do so, and they'll be added to the respository.  Speaking of which, I must update it now.

RE: 2D Zelda Higher Resolution Community Project - miyabi95_ - 04-18-2016

(04-18-2016, 03:22 PM)Red Haired Bastard Wrote: I'm getting some intense Megaman X for IOS vibes.

Yep...That's more or less what they did. Up the resolution and smooth out the lines...But of course they did it in a very rushed fashion. Mine was rushed too as I was mostly fooling around Tongue.

RE: 2D Zelda Higher Resolution Community Project - Koh - 04-18-2016

Puyo Puyo Tsu Perfect Set on PS2 did the same thing.
[Image: 640full-sega-ages-2500-series-vol.-12%3A...enshot.jpg]

Except I think they just used a filter instead of doing it by hand, because some things look blurry because of it.

RE: 2D Zelda Higher Resolution Community Project - DarkGrievous7145 - 04-18-2016

(04-18-2016, 04:07 PM)Koh Wrote:
(04-18-2016, 02:26 PM)DarkGrievous7145 Wrote: Now that I'm back from LD35, I think I might give this a shot, but first, lunch time!

Also, IMHO, if one is going to make "HD" versions of the assets, some more detail probably should be added, but maybe that's just me. Either way works, I suppose, but I will say that for consistency's sake, imagine someone was going to actually make a game with this, perhaps there should be a specific style to use, just sayin'

Well, that's just the thing.  Remember, there's no restriction on how many different versions of something there can be.  If everyone on this forum wants to do their own spin on Link for the project, they're absolutely free to do so, and they'll be added to the respository.  Speaking of which, I must update it now.

This is true

Still, it goes without saying an "HD" version usually would add or enhance certain levels of detail.

It should also maybe depend on the game in question, since they do indeed all have different styles.

Still, my point stands, hypothetically speaking, someone were to make a game, there needs to be some consistency.

In those regards, how artists here should go about this is widely open to interpretation. And I should mention that I do actually like seeing the same art in different styles. For example, my user avatar, here, 90% of the reason I like it is the particular style my friend used, as it's different than most of the others MLP art is traditionally drawn in.

Anyways, I'm back from lunch, gonna try get my LD thing up on github, and then I am going to take a shot at this

RE: 2D Zelda Higher Resolution Community Project - DarkGrievous7145 - 04-18-2016

   

I said I'd give it a shot.
Hopefully it's not a total piece of garbage.

Some days, I hate myself for being totally obsessed with cats...lol

RE: 2D Zelda Higher Resolution Community Project - Koh - 04-18-2016

First, what is this from? Second, the lines look a bit too angular in some areas, like the one on its back. But otherwise, it's decent~

RE: 2D Zelda Higher Resolution Community Project - DarkGrievous7145 - 04-18-2016

I was expecting the flat face to get pointed-out! lol

and whoops...
Minnish Cap

I recall several years ago, predating my memebership, searching for cat sprites, and finding that sheet.
http://www.spriters-resource.com/game_boy_advance/thelegendofzeldatheminishcap/sheet/6402/

Strangely, though, unless I missed it, I didn't see it in the results this time...
So, I had to search "legend of zelda cats" on google to find the game.

Anyways, they're from Minnish Cap.

Anything else you'd like to point-out? I'm actually tempted to attempt to HD-I-FY the whole sheet, but this will take...a lot of time, cuz I'm lazy.