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+----- Thread: Bobby Kotick insults every indie game dev in the world (Except Bungie) (/thread-15286.html)
RE: Bobby Kotick insults every indie game dev in the world (Except Bungie) - Cobalt Blue - 09-20-2010
(09-20-2010, 10:15 PM)Djanjo Wrote:i can tell you nintendo relasing "new version of his everlastin franchise" isnt what one calls development. he was quite generous by putting japan 5 years behind in terms of development, i'd say they're at least 10.(09-20-2010, 10:05 PM)StarSock64 Wrote:(09-20-2010, 09:52 PM)Djanjo Wrote: This just in. Everyone sucks at everything. More at 11
Every time I hear about Inafune saying things like this it really annoys me. Capcom sucks at the Western "style" and I can't think of that many Western games that are even particularly interesting. Japanese games are the ones that come off as creative and fun to me, I dunno where he's getting these ideas from. Am I just not up-to-date or what?
Are there Western games that aren't shooters or generic tough-guy games that he could have in mind?
THANK YOU. That's exactly the point of my post. Whether your Western of Eastern, someone out there has different taste. Someone out there who develops or has a hand in game making, actually think they can tell people shit all about an opinion as if it were fact.
Here's an idea: Bobby, make something on PS3 and see if it will actually sell, try something not in space, or with aliens. Keiji, how's about you do something constructive like getting around to Megaman Legends 3.
its the sort of things that puts companies like treasure over the rest.
RE: Bobby Kotick insults every indie game dev in the world (Except Bungie) - Vipershark - 09-20-2010
(09-20-2010, 10:05 PM)StarSock64 Wrote:(09-20-2010, 09:52 PM)Djanjo Wrote: This just in. Everyone sucks at everything. More at 11
Every time I hear about Inafune saying things like this it really annoys me. Capcom sucks at the Western "style" and I can't think of that many Western games that are even particularly interesting. Japanese games are the ones that come off as creative and fun to me, I dunno where he's getting these ideas from. Am I just not up-to-date or what?
Are there Western games that aren't shooters or generic tough-guy games that he could have in mind?
this post is pretty much perfect
while I won't say that there are ZERO appealing western games, the number of appealing J-games is infinitely higher.
edit- HEH nobody saw that
RE: Bobby Kotick insults every indie game dev in the world (Except Bungie) - Cobalt Blue - 09-21-2010
(09-20-2010, 11:42 PM)Vipershark Wrote: the number of appealing J-games is infinitely higher.
talk about biased
RE: Bobby Kotick insults every indie game dev in the world (Except Bungie) - GaryCXJk - 09-21-2010
In my opinion high "quality" means shit if:
1) people aren't interested;
2) the game is generic enough for people to not give a shit;
3) if you personally don't think it is high quality.
And that's what it's all about. If people don't care about your games, what good is quality? What consists of quality if there is nobody to recognize it? And who cares about quality if gaming is about fun? Minecraft looks like fucking shit, and still people are having fun with it.
Also, there's a reason people don't call companies like Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Bungie or whatever indie. The word indie itself is currently associated with the indie scene, meaning, indie is just another word for pretentious bullshit, or at least it's pretentious bullshit if people are starting to become smug about it by stating "I'm playing this indie game, I'm a better gamer than you".
Wait, what was this topic about again?
RE: Bobby Kotick insults every indie game dev in the world (Except Bungie) - Cobalt Blue - 09-21-2010
(09-21-2010, 10:20 AM)GaryCXJk Wrote: In my opinion high "quality" means shit if:it may be me, but your post lacked quality.
1) people aren't interested;
2) the game is generic enough for people to not give a shit;
3) if you personally don't think it is high quality.
And that's what it's all about. If people don't care about your games, what good is quality? What consists of quality if there is nobody to recognize it? And who cares about quality if gaming is about fun? Minecraft looks like fucking shit, and still people are having fun with it.
Also, there's a reason people don't call companies like Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Bungie or whatever indie. The word indie itself is currently associated with the indie scene, meaning, indie is just another word for pretentious bullshit, or at least it's pretentious bullshit if people are starting to become smug about it by stating "I'm playing this indie game, I'm a better gamer than you".
Wait, what was this topic about again?
RE: Bobby Kotick insults every indie game dev in the world (Except Bungie) - GaryCXJk - 09-21-2010
Yeah, halfway I didn't even know what the fuck I was on about myself.
RE: Bobby Kotick insults every indie game dev in the world (Except Bungie) - GrooveMan.exe - 09-21-2010
(09-20-2010, 10:41 PM)Robert Paulson Wrote:(09-20-2010, 10:30 PM)Phantom K Wrote: Proton, I think the kind of independent you're talking about is what's usually referred to as "3rd party""3rd Party" is when you're a game dev that isn't from the company that released the system you're developing for.
Usually when someone says indie they mean what Sengir or Woppet are saying
Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft are 1st party.
Activision, Ubisoft and EA are 3rd party.
To expand on this, developers that are employed directly part of the 1st Party are often refered to as '2nd Party', although this may be something of a misnomer. Camelot (Mario Tennis, Golden Sun) would be 2nd Party developers.
RE: Bobby Kotick insults every indie game dev in the world (Except Bungie) - Vipershark - 09-21-2010
(09-21-2010, 10:11 AM)Francisco Cifuentes Wrote:(09-20-2010, 11:42 PM)Vipershark Wrote: the number of appealing J-games is infinitely higher.
talk about biased
that's not bias; that's fact.
At the current time,
80% of the things that western developers put out is shovelware. I'm including sports games here because fuck sports games.
15% are shooters and driving games.
Leaving only around 5% of games made by western developers to be games that are actually good and innovative.
I'm not saying that shooters and driving games are bad, but the the market is currently so oversaturated with them that for anything to stand out, it'll have to be a multimillion dollar blockbuster release.
On the other side, it's true that a huge chunk of the J-game market is made up of JRPGs, but MOST (keyword here being most, not all) J-games have a certain quality and polish to them that western developers don't put in their games.
RE: Bobby Kotick insults every indie game dev in the world (Except Bungie) - GrooveMan.exe - 09-21-2010
Um
There's a lot of Japanese shovelware too. But it never makes it over here because Western publishers obvs. aren't going to translate that shit. By that same vein, Japanese gamers aren't going to get Western shovelware. So the two industries are a little more similar than you assume. The genre saturation of choice is different; but whether that's a problem is more of a taste issue.
RE: Bobby Kotick insults every indie game dev in the world (Except Bungie) - Sengir - 09-21-2010
(09-21-2010, 11:45 AM)GrooveMan.exe Wrote:(09-20-2010, 10:41 PM)Robert Paulson Wrote:(09-20-2010, 10:30 PM)Phantom K Wrote: Proton, I think the kind of independent you're talking about is what's usually referred to as "3rd party""3rd Party" is when you're a game dev that isn't from the company that released the system you're developing for.
Usually when someone says indie they mean what Sengir or Woppet are saying
Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft are 1st party.
Activision, Ubisoft and EA are 3rd party.
To expand on this, developers that are employed directly part of the 1st Party are often refered to as '2nd Party', although this may be something of a misnomer. Camelot (Mario Tennis, Golden Sun) would be 2nd Party developers.
yeah, i think there might be some confusion on "types" of companies
Console Manufacturers: Companies that make the platforms, examples include Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony, Apple, and Google.
1st Party: Same as Console Manufacturers, 1st Party companies are generally publishers with some also developing.
2nd Party: 2nd Party companies are 1st Party-owned developers for the most part. Examples include Rare and HAL Laboratories.
3rd Party: 3rd Party companies are not aligned with any of the other parties. Examples include Activision, Square Enix, and now Sega.
Publisher: A company that markets and sells games while sometimes paying developer studios to make them. Examples include Activision, EA, Konami, Nintendo, etc.
Developer: A company that is payed to make games for publishers but not owned by them.
Studio: A company that is payed to make games for a specific publisher that owns the studio.
Indie Developer: A company that makes games without a publisher (Meaning they cannot distribute through regular methods. They generally use digtal distribution such as Steam, Facebook, or iTunes)
RE: Bobby Kotick insults every indie game dev in the world (Except Bungie) - Shawn - 09-21-2010
Technically, Indie Developers can still have publishers, they just aren't funding or contributing to the games development outside of the distribution and advertising departments.
RE: Bobby Kotick insults every indie game dev in the world (Except Bungie) - Sengir - 09-21-2010
(09-21-2010, 01:08 PM)Burn Wrote: Technically, Indie Developers can still have publishers, they just aren't funding or contributing to the games development outside of the distribution and advertising departments.
That's just marketing. A publisher is who publishes the games.
RE: Bobby Kotick insults every indie game dev in the world (Except Bungie) - Omegajak - 09-21-2010
Both ends of the spectrum are hitting walls (in terms of creativity). Let's be honest here. That's what my posts were trying to say: They both suck so I don't understand how either of those two could be talking about others. Especially when they both were the ones who are the rules, not the exceptions.
RE: Bobby Kotick insults every indie game dev in the world (Except Bungie) - Keychain - 09-21-2010
Popcap.
RE: Bobby Kotick insults every indie game dev in the world (Except Bungie) - StarSock64 - 09-21-2010
Yeah, both sides obviously throw out shovelware, but I feel like we get more quality/creative/stylish games from Japan than we do from western countries. How often do western developers make something of "wow" quality? I don't care what the in-country proportion of good-to-bad games is, if Japan brings out more of those kinds of games than the other countries then it's still leading in that aspect.