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+----- Thread: Megaman 10 confirmed (/thread-10201.html)
RE: Megaman 10 confirmed - Vipershark - 12-15-2009
Pretty much this.
I get where giz is going with it, but still.
With samus being as pretty much the only person to exist in most of the metroid games, they could at least give some sort of insight as to what she thinks.
She is her own character, after all. Honestly if they really wanted to do the whole "project yourself onto her" thing it would've been better for them to never take her helmet off, and leave "samus" as just the suit itself, if you get what I'm saying.
RE: Megaman 10 confirmed - Rökkan - 12-15-2009
Samus does have some character development and we do have some insight of her thoughts in Metroid Fusion as far as I remember.
RE: Megaman 10 confirmed - Vipershark - 12-15-2009
I haven't beaten Fusion yet, but pretty much all I've seen from her so far is backstory and her relationship to what ADAM is ordering her to do.
But aside from that (and aside from fusion in general,) Samus has almost no character development.
RE: Megaman 10 confirmed - Ton - 12-15-2009
I wish they'd include her backstory in something besides a comic... Right there we'd have some motive.
RE: Megaman 10 confirmed - PrettyNier - 12-15-2009
Quote:I don't think it's too much to ask that the character i'm supposed to be engaged with have some kind of personality. Fusion had some through her thoughts, but the other games don't give us anything to go on. To say that a subtle character can't express anything is ridiculous. I'm sorry if "convention" is to have a character with "personality" and "motives" but if that makes me ignorant, then fine.Bombastic cutscenes are not the only way to express character traits, and there have been countless expressions of samus' character throughout the series~
again, you're not supposed to be engaged with the character you are supposed to be the character, she is a representation of who you are, not just some guy you look at and go "i can relate to them"; without completely sacrificing character. She is still an identifiable character - the issue here seems to be that you're just missing things.
But even despite this, they have managed to weasel in character plotline and emotion. She is solitary, she is somewhat vengeful, and she is individual: she is strong. but she is also somewhat caring; this is expressed in the ending for Metroid II by her keeping the baby metroid alive and sort of "protecting" it, despite her mission. And that's all she has to be.
By creating superficial or disruptive plotlines in the name of "character development", akin to what fusion almost did, they are destroying what makes metroid "metroid" in the first place.
That isn't to say, again, that there is no character development: there is, in both super metroid and metroid II, and in fusion and kind of zero mission. Zero mission creates a backstory of her being raised by the chozo as an orphan and imbues another level to the plot without actually relying on conventional narrative.
Quote:I wish they'd include her backstory in something besides a comic^read above^
Quote:With samus being as pretty much the only person to exist in most of the metroid games, they could at least give some sort of insight as to what she thinks.actions speak more than words~~!!
RE: Megaman 10 confirmed - Vipershark - 12-15-2009
but uh
there's nobody for her to interact with
her actions are "shoot enemy A" and "bomb wall B"
RE: Megaman 10 confirmed - Ton - 12-15-2009
(12-15-2009, 04:02 PM)Gizmonicgamer Wrote: But even despite this, they have managed to weasel in character plotline and emotion. She is solitary, she is somewhat vengeful, and she is individual: she is strong. but she is also somewhat caring; this is expressed in the ending for Metroid II by her keeping the baby metroid alive and sort of "protecting" it, despite her mission. And that's all she has to be.
That isn't to say, again, that there is no character development: there is, in both super metroid and metroid II, and in fusion and kind of zero mission. Zero mission creates a backstory of her being raised by the chozo as an orphan and imbues another level to the plot without actually relying on conventional narrative.
Does she? Or is that what you're projecting onto her?
There's a difference between not giving the audience information to make the character seem detached and distant and not giving them information because the character has no information to give/you don't know how. You can argue that "actions speak louder than words" but only if the actions have something behind them. And you are the one controlling the action most of the time.
That's not to say that I don't buy the "Samus is hardened, but cares about some stuff" angle, but backstory is not characterization. Characterization is how they react because to their backstory. Why is that backstory important? "I was born half vampire so I kill werewolves" tells nothing of my motivations and thoughts. Only where I'm from and what I do. We know Samus was raised by Chozos and is a bounty hunter, but what drives her? We can infer that it's the death of her family, but since she's a bounty hunter by profession, it could just as well be the money. We don't know. Maybe she cared about that Metroid at the end of Super Metroid, or maybe she just saw it as a lucky break and immediately moved on. We don't know (do we? I'm not sure about that example).
The fact that we only hear reactionary clips from her, like shouting and screaming doesn't help. And she's alone, so she has nobody to bounce her thoughts off of.
Samus doesn't need some epic story (though I'd argue that chasing down the space pirates, eradicating the metroids, and blowing up planets is pretty epic), but it'd be nice to see what's going on behind the helmet.
Speaking of which, none of this would matter much if Nintendo had decided to just make her some robot. But we know she's human. She has a face. Fans care about her and her mythology, but in classic Nintendo fashion, they don't.
RE: Megaman 10 confirmed - PrettyNier - 12-15-2009
intro to super metroid, super metroids ending;
baby metroid in metroid II
adam and federation in fusion
space pirates, chozo in zero mission
Quote:Does she? Or is that what you're projecting onto her?those are what the games say and official canon recognizes that~
Quote:but backstory is not characterization. Characterization is how they react because to their backstory. Why is that backstory importanther parents were killed by the space pirates, and the space pirates also hold a hand in the destruction of the chozo iirc; it also explains her suit and upgrades, which are chozo relics~
being a bounty hunter offers the kind of freedom necessary to pursue that
her motivation is pretty obvious bro
Quote:Maybe she cared about that Metroid at the end of Super Metroid, or maybe she just saw it as a lucky break and immediately moved on.Evidently she cared enough to keep it alive.
RE: Megaman 10 confirmed - Ton - 12-15-2009
...What about them?
RE: Megaman 10 confirmed - PrettyNier - 12-15-2009
I was responding to viper. check the post again.
RE: Megaman 10 confirmed - Cobalt Blue - 12-15-2009
she wouldn't be an hero if she didn't do the right thing.
RE: Megaman 10 confirmed - Kesha - 12-15-2009
i'm going to rock easy mode in mega man 10
RE: Megaman 10 confirmed - Ton - 12-15-2009
(12-15-2009, 05:29 PM)Gizmonicgamer Wrote: intro to super metroid, super metroids ending;
baby metroid in metroid II
adam and federation in fusion
space pirates, chozo in zero mission
Quote:Does she? Or is that what you're projecting onto her?those are what the games say and official canon recognizes that~
Quote:but backstory is not characterization. Characterization is how they react because to their backstory. Why is that backstory importanther parents were killed by the space pirates, and the space pirates also hold a hand in the destruction of the chozo iirc; it also explains her suit and upgrades, which are chozo relics~
being a bounty hunter offers the kind of freedom necessary to pursue that
her motivation is pretty obvious bro
Quote:Maybe she cared about that Metroid at the end of Super Metroid, or maybe she just saw it as a lucky break and immediately moved on.Evidently she cared enough to keep it alive.
You're speculating an awful lot. There's nothing solid in-game to say why she makes the decisions she's made. Being a bounty hunter gives her freedom. Ok, but not having a job would give her even more freedom.
It's probably more like this; she doesn't know where the Space Pirates will be at any given time. She has access to the weaponry, but not the locale. That's what the Federation provides her. In return she kills the pirates and keeps the Galaxy safe. Good speculation, but still speculation. We don't know if it's true. If Samus just said that it would be canon and it would add to her character.
Similarly we don't know why she kept the Metroid alive. Maybe she felt sorry for it because it was the remaining specimen like she was and took pity on it. Or maybe she saw the opportunity to use something of immense power that the space pirates no longer had against them and the Metroid misinterpreted her willingness to keep it alive as a biological weapon as nurturing, so it latched on to her as a mother.
Both are possible and both are pretty cool. Hell, maybe it's a little of both. But we don't know because Samus never says it. She has the potential to be the most interesting of all the Nintendo characters. I'd argue that she is. She doesn't have much to contend with. But she's still plagued by fan projection and very little actual characterization.
RE: Megaman 10 confirmed - Ton - 12-15-2009
Oh yeah, this is a Megaman 10 topic. Maybe we should make a new one for this discussion.
RE: Megaman 10 confirmed - Crappy Blue Luigi - 12-15-2009
So, Mega Man 10.
... Anybody else feel like Capcom might make a Robot Master equivalent for one of the original Navis from the Megaman Battle Network series, like NumberMan.exe?