1. This is a multi-person project. The Mario sprite you are currently critiquing is very, very little like the original Mario sprite I had made for the project*. It's gone through a lot of revisions by multiple people to get to the form it is now- the point being that I am trying to make here is that there is no 'you' involved here and at this point it would be difficult to pinpoint who contributed to each 'fault'- so please refrain from saying 'you' to me on a good majority of the sprites shown on the site, as I'm not the one behind all of them- a good deal, yes, but I personally dislike receiving critique aimed specifically at me for something of which I am not responsible for**. I would also appreciate in the future that critique would avoid phrasing such as "'there's a thing called 'hip bones'." This is, in my opinion, unnecessarily catty and there are just as easy, more civil ways of explaining the exact same concept. Saying "The legs are far too 'V' like and don't show the hip structure well enough" is just as illuminating without also being condescending. While I understand in some cases a condescending attitude can bring results to some and that some may easily brush off such behavior as simply being a cute behavioral quirk, I am telling you now that it will not be helpful in the long run here and I am requesting that in future critiques and communications that this behavior be knocked off.
   *Which was terrible, and thus was completely discarded before coming to the current sprite. The current is actually much better than what I had personally made and I will not claim anything to the contrary. I will also not claim that the current sprite is perfect, thus my asking for people to have a look over and fix what they see off.
   **With the understanding that I am responsible for saying "yeah, that's good enough to be put up"- though I will speak that my personal judgement is not very good, and is part of the reason why these projects rely quite a bit on outside input both for contributions and for critique.
   
2. THAT OUT OF THE WAY- I'm all for simplifying things and proportioning things better. Thus asking for 'face lifts'- there's been a big push in this project recently with getting things updated for better accuracy, so I thank you for your critiques and pointers on various portions of Mario's anatomy. I'd like him to look as much like 'himself' as we can get. As someone who does not play or work with Mario related material often, my ability to tell what's a good looking 'Mario' is not as refined as those that have grown up with the little guy, so having the opinions and critique on the subject is very helpful. Because of my lack of education on the matter of Mario, I don't know entirely for sure if your improvements are more accurate or not. My personal thoughts (being uneducated in the matter as I have said) is that his head seems just a touch too squat in the fix ups. I think the facial profile on the right side looks generally better, though, with it's shorter width. I also think that the body on the right looks proportionally better, though I admit that my first instinct on seeing it was "he looks really fat". The more I look over it however the more 'right' it feels. Mario is famous for his rotundness after all, eh? Overall, I like the right one better but I would like some minor portions of the left version integrated into it, if possible. For instance, I would prefer that the cuff of his glove be more distinct as it is in the left. Other than that...
   
3. I would prefer the shininess restored to the sprite. Yes, I realize that Mario is not wearing a latex suit, but that is part of the visual style. The way I think of it, each sprite in this style is like a tiny plastic figurine- not outrageously shiny, but just the small occasional dot of highlight for a more three dimensional feel. All the other sprites have this level of shininess to them, so excluding Mario will cause him to stand out awkwardly among them and look quite bland, despite the strength and skill of the sprite. So I ask, even if you see it as a step back, to please keep that aspect.
   

(07-10-2012, 09:34 PM)mutantyoshi Wrote: I saw that you had Yoshi there, and IMO I felt he could had used a touch-up, not sure if I am able to, but here is what I came up with:

(07-10-2012, 11:07 PM)Gors Wrote: I won't read through all that because I am dealing with my own projects but guess what

First of all, I did aim the criticism at you. But why? Because you are responsible for this project, thus any problem this project has will be directed to you. This is how leading projects work. I have led several community projects and that's how it always worked for me. If a partner of some group fucks up, the leader will take responsibility for that. I, as a critique person, won't even care about who made what. I am here solely to point the wrong things so they can be corrected.

(07-10-2012, 10:29 PM)Deebs Wrote: ... receiving critique aimed specifically at me for something of which I am not responsible for**. ...

** With the understanding that I am responsible for saying "yeah, that's good enough to be put up"- though I will speak that my personal judgement is not very good, and is part of the reason why these projects rely quite a bit on outside input both for contributions and for critique.

(07-10-2012, 11:07 PM)Gors Wrote: Second, if you took my criticism as an attack, you seriously need to rethink browsing tSR because that's how 90% of the people around here gives criticism. I wasn't being blunt. I was being direct to the point. If you felt offended by that then well, tough luck, it's not getting any 'softer' than it is. My advice is as helpful as your fluffy version, and if you can't see my point in the way I wrote that, then you should post them at somewhere like dA: you'll get plenty of 'omg amazing' comments.

(07-10-2012, 11:07 PM)Gors Wrote: Third, sticking to style "handcuffs", as I'd like to call them, is a dumb idea. It's a handcuff because it's keeping you tied to visuals that don't make sense at all. That small one-pixel speck is not making the sprite better. It is instead making him look like he's made out of plastic. Mario is not plastic, therefore that technique is unnecessary. Tridimensionality is achieved by shading accordingly, not by tiny specks. Same with the 'light gray' instead of... white. This brings the whole style down and it makes the sprites look severely handicapped. It's "up to you", though. You can either have a clean, sharp style or an aged, illogical style.

(07-10-2012, 11:07 PM)Gors Wrote: The point is, I am not trying to attack you or your project, but it sucks to see such potential being wasted on blurry and cluttered sprites. I also am fed up of people who can't accept a """""harsh""""" (inside a lot of quote marks because it wasn't even harsh at all) criticism without going 'you could at least say (insert euphemistic version of the same exact criticism)'.

I'm glad that you accepted the changes starsock and I did, but there are much more flaws you should take care of.

(07-11-2012, 10:16 AM)Deebs Wrote: There is one thing that, even in the development of a new style, that I will like clung to as the ideal and would request be kept in mind during the development of a new style- This style was first created as a modified form of the S3&K sprites, and was designed in mind to be a successor of sorts to that style.


Those two things in mind, what would you suggest for the general style? If providing visuals, I would like to see it demonstrated on 'mainstay' characters (Sonic, Tails, Mario, etc) as this will help me understand the differences and changes more clearly.

Thanks.