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+--- Thread: Feel the "Character" of Games Have Gone Down? (/thread-27097.html)
Feel the "Character" of Games Have Gone Down? - Koh - 05-07-2015
Something I've been thinking on for a while now.
Back in the late 80s and early 90s, game developers had to work with and around the limitations of the console hardware. Not just graphics, but also music and sounds too. Due to this, it was very much possible to be able to tell what console a game was on, just by listening to it. Sega Genesis (and by extension, the NEC PC-9801, since they used similar chips) had a very distinctive sound, and you'd know a Genesis game when you heard it. The same characterization, of course, extended to the other 8-bit and 16-bit consoles, like the SNES having a very distinctive sound. In terms of graphics, the color limitations forced the developers to get the most out of what was available to them. This led to some either bland-looking games, or games that still hold up with an amazing art style to this day, such as Seiken Densetsu 3.
But the moment the 32 and 64-bit eras come, that characterization seemed to go down. 3D was still early on the consoles, so the graphics still had much growing to do. Rarely would anyone ever say early 3D graphics hold up to this day though. No longer were developers hindered by console limitations in terms of sprites and music either, as one could literally insert a fully orchestrated soundtrack into the game with ease, and use as many colors as they deemed necessary on sprites.
So without the limitations in place, I'm saying games overall (not every single one, but just in general) have started to bleed together in terms of graphics and sound. All the games that try to look realistic look more or less the same, and since there are no limitations on sound, all the soundtracks sort of bleed together with the same high quality instruments and such. This isn't to say the graphics aren't GOOD and the sound/music isn't GOOD, but rather that the character is lost, since they aren't forced to get the most out of limitations.
What are your thoughts? Do you agree, disagree?
EDIT: This is excluding the indie game scene! I'm well aware they're the primary group bringing freshness in this day and age, lol. This is mainly concerning the mainstream games with the mainstream companies.
RE: Feel the "Character" of Games Have Gone Down? - Omegajak - 05-07-2015
Extra Credits already mentioned this is the best time to be an independent game creator because there are assets everywhere and engines that run anything and everything. You can put your game everywhere and anywhere depending on how much you put into your game.
If you're asking me do i feel game quality has gone down amongst AAA developers yes, but that's because it's time for AAA to crumble anyway sooner or later the record sales are going to stop, people aren't going to want a new COD that looks just like old COD.
Hmmmm I don't know how 32-bit doesn't hold up in most cases. I likeeveryone's go to being Seiken Densetsu 3, I'd have said Legend of Mana but that's proabably just preference of style. You're right though limitation allows people to think of unconventional ways to convey information and ideas when it comes to games. Like, the reason people get that Sonic is all about attitude is that unlike Mario Sonic get's impatient if you leave the game on. If your mom called you or whatever while your were in the middle playign in whatever dark room you were playing it you coem back and Soni'cs all "Oh LOOK who came back! Gee, sure hope moms trash was more important than these cute little trapped animals ya dick." Which is adorable in a "Hey someone thought so much of me that they made Sonic care, or at least act as if he cares about what I'm doing/not doing.
Yeah games don't do that anymore. I remeber when it was a big deal Tales of the Abyss finally got like the whole on face reaction and aimations down. That game has mad heart. I say that game still holds up in terms of being 3D and good looking. I think realism is good but for different reasons when you're trying to convey a very realistic world it's better to draw from reality. Benefactors of this are Blood Borne, Dark Souls, Uncharted, GTA, Car Sims, FPS's, Sports Games. These games are based in and around our world so they should reflect the things people will see. Games like Brave Fencer Musashi, Final Fantasy Tactics, Azure Dreams, Mystical Ninja, those aren't games based in worlds like ours so why even try to confine them? Give them a style or artistic look that is referential to reality as opposed to imitating reality. I think a lot of developers could do with your thinking Koh.
RE: Feel the "Character" of Games Have Gone Down? - Iceman404 - 05-07-2015
I honestly do miss when I could say stuff like "wow this song sounds like it came right out of a Sonic game" yeah. More and more games today seem to lack varying, or rather, highly distinctive artstyles. Every Mario game, for example, has artstyle sure but looks the same as the last one, and the one before that, and the one before that; this is because they can shorten development time by importing character models from previous installments over and over and touching them up slightly. Us, being a spriting forum primarily, should understand this concept. A popular spriters thing is to see how you can make something that didn't even exist in a certain game initially fit in its artstyle because they all looked so distinct. That's not as much the case anymore.
RE: Feel the "Character" of Games Have Gone Down? - Helmo - 05-07-2015
The 360 and PS3 shared like 75% of their library didn't they?
RE: Feel the "Character" of Games Have Gone Down? - Kriven - 05-07-2015
I want to say modern games lack character because a large number of developers are using similar styles and gameplay elements... Yet at the same time, there's a huge number of creative, charismatic IPs if you care to look for them. No More Heroes, Shovel Knight, Shantae is iffy because she's a dated character, but she's only really started to shine in the previous generation. There's just hundreds of games coming out every month... most of them look the same... but that's always been true, and its always going to be true, and it's true of all creative things.
Do I think there is less charisma in the modern gaming environment than there was ten or twenty years ago? Absolutely not. There's just more mid-list material than there used to be.
RE: Feel the "Character" of Games Have Gone Down? - BullockDS - 05-08-2015
I really don't think that indie games deserve a free pass on this though. Faux-retro for indie games has practically become what gritty brown-and-gray has become for mainstream games.
RE: Feel the "Character" of Games Have Gone Down? - Kriven - 05-08-2015
(05-08-2015, 12:19 AM)BullockDS Wrote: I really don't think that indie games deserve a free pass on this though. Faux-retro for indie games has practically become what gritty brown-and-gray has become for mainstream games.
I don't know if this is directed at me or not because I mentioned Shovel Knight. Faux-retro is in right now, you're right, and that went a long way towards advising my opinion that large numbers of developers are using the same motifes. However, Shovel Knight is such a distinct character, which is why I mentioned him. But here's some other games from this generation and the one previous full of personality that I don't think fall into the faux-retro camp:
Armillo, Dillon, PushMo, A Kappa's Trail, Gunman Clive, Liberation Maiden, Lollipop Chainsaw, Catherine, Professor Layton, etc...
RE: Feel the "Character" of Games Have Gone Down? - BullockDS - 05-08-2015
(05-08-2015, 01:56 AM)Kriven Wrote:(05-08-2015, 12:19 AM)BullockDS Wrote: I really don't think that indie games deserve a free pass on this though. Faux-retro for indie games has practically become what gritty brown-and-gray has become for mainstream games.
I don't know if this is directed at me or not because I mentioned Shovel Knight. Faux-retro is in right now, you're right, and that went a long way towards advising my opinion that large numbers of developers are using the same motifes. However, Shovel Knight is such a distinct character, which is why I mentioned him. But here's some other games from this generation and the one previous full of personality that I don't think fall into the faux-retro camp:
Armillo, Dillon, PushMo, A Kappa's Trail, Gunman Clive, Liberation Maiden, Lollipop Chainsaw, Catherine, Professor Layton, etc...
It was moreso the mention of indie games in Koh's OP that prompted my response. And it's not specifically Shovel Knight I take issue with; it's the fact that faux retro has become a popular easy-out for some indie devs; again, much like washed-out grittyness for mainstream games. (inb4 "but no budgets!" justifications)
RE: Feel the "Character" of Games Have Gone Down? - Koh - 05-08-2015
That faux-retro art style is increasingly common with indie games, but stylistically they tend to be varied or copied. For example, CaveStory and LaMulana are pretty early examples of widespread indie games that adopted their own specific faux-retro styles, and you could name plenty of things that tried to copy their style. Then of course, the big building game Minecraft and all the clones that were born from it. What keeps them separated, however, is their soundtrack. Cave Story and LaMulana still have their own distinctive sound. Minecraft is...well, there's no music or anything, so, he he. Terraria's got a distinctive art style now, though it initially looked like a Final Fantasy 4/5 sprite edit fest (and truthfully, some of it still is), but its soundtrack is still pretty stylistically unique.
RE: Feel the "Character" of Games Have Gone Down? - Neweegee - 05-08-2015
I think one the main reasons creativity has gotten so low in many AAA titles is because game systems and computers have become so strong, that a cartoony or very stylized game wouldn't really show what a system can do; we pretty much hit the limit on those when the Xbox 360 and PS3 came out.
And when you make a hyper realistic world(which will almost always kill any chance for unique art-style), the actual gameplay, music, story and other features kinda have to be realistic as well, this means that you can't really have anything like platforms in midair, pitfalls, floating collectibles and unexplained talking animals, or else the game would likely be considered really weird or "too kiddie'
Levels are also kinda forced to look more like an area you could imagine people living in rather than mostly made just to challenge you, which seems to make games focus on using the enemies and other things to challenge you instead. Which is really sad to me, since creative and challenging levels (especially in racing games) is one of my favorite parts of games.
And since this all narrows down many games to be certain way, they come out really similar.
To the point where you could probably hack a stage out of one game and it would easily blend in the with the next.
RE: Feel the "Character" of Games Have Gone Down? - StarSock64 - 05-09-2015
(05-07-2015, 01:57 PM)Koh Wrote: since there are no limitations on sound, all the soundtracks sort of bleed together with the same high quality instruments and such.
This is something that's been bumming me out lately. A lot of older game music has a much more interesting texture to it, if that makes sense to say.
Even Nintendo has been trending towards traditional instruments, and I find it kinda boring. On the flipside, the indies' beloved chiptunes are okay, but they're not the most interesting music either.
I think a lot of games benefit from having music that accentuates how quirky they are. Sometimes you don't want an adventure that makes you feel like you're a defined action hero; sometimes you want an adventure that's actually wondrous, y'know? When a game seems so conscious and predictable, it's like,"yeah, tons of guys in offices made this game," and that doesn't always draw me in. I think sometimes it's better to be vague or dreamlike, and imperfect sounding instruments can be helpful towards achieving that.