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+--- Forum: Custom Sprites / Pixel Art (https://www.vg-resource.com/forum-127.html)
+--- Thread: So, this section... (/thread-27192.html)
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So, this section... - StarSock64 - 05-27-2015
This is something I've been wanting to talk about for a long time. I've gone through each of the non-stickied threads that are displaying on the current page, and I've tallied up which threads fit into a few categories.
This is what I found:
Nintendo characters: .3 + .3 + .5 + .2 + .3 + .2 + .5 + .5 + 1 = 3.8
Popular mascot characters: .3 + 1 + .5 + .1 + .5 + 1 = 3.4
Typical guy/etc. with no real design: 1 + .1 + .3 + .2 + .6 + 1 = 3.2
Other: 1 + .3 + .6 + .7 + .3 + 1 + .6 + .4 + .5 = 5.4
Any "1" means that all the sprites in the thread on whatever page(s) I looked at fit into that category.
The decimal numbers represent the way I split the scores up when the sprites in a given thread matched more than one category.
That makes a ratio of 10.4:5.4, or almost 2:1 of the total of the top three categories vs. the "other" category
What does this ratio represent?
Well, the point I'm trying to make is how uninspired and lacking in personality the sprites in this subforum are.
How many times have you seen basic Nintendo or similar character sprites in the same dull style? How many times have you seen "guy with no theme who wears the plainest clothes?" Yes, it's nice to have fun doing whatever you want. Yes, you don't have to take art that seriously. Yes, a lot of you are still learning and want to stick with easy things. But still, the amount of stagnation here is astounding.
I have to force myself to even look at the sprites in this section, they're so boring. I can't imagine most passerbys would care to stop and look, either. Art is a lot more fun when there's some vigor between you and the people you share it with. If you just want to make sprites that can only elicit a "meh," then I have no idea why you even do it at all.
Besides the audience, this section isn't good for the artists, either. I feel like this place breeds laziness and a lack of enthusiasm. Like, this is seriously a rotten place to try to be an artist, no matter how serious you are about it.
I think that influence is a very important thing to manage as an artist, and when you're stuck in a culture with a bunch of people of who don't have the guts to try something new or who don't have the guts to design a character that requires some actual personal input, then how can you improve? Trying a no-brainer sprite every once in awhile is fine, but seriously, where is the ambition?
Where are the animations? Where are the scenes? Where is the style experimentation? Where are the larger sprites? Where are the color studies? Where are the mockups? Where are the actual character designs? Where is anything?
It all makes me pretty sad. I feel like being here is making people forget that there's a much larger world of art to enjoy, and that you don't have to be stuck having a mediocre amount of fun as a pigeonholed artist who can't do anything. You can actually have the heart to learn how to make things that are worth making if you just gain the ambition to try new things. I don't want to keep seeing this stupid generic crap over and over again. It just doesn't do much for anybody.
Yeah, technical improvement is good, but that's not even my main point here. Learning the basics is very important, but seriously, what good are they if you keep making subject matter that's not interesting?
Think about the sprites that excite you. Is it the contextless renditions of characters standing idly that you've seen 10,000 times? I suspect that's probably not the case.
Is it the screenshots of games that have an ambient world? Is it the lively characters that bounce around and make you smile? Is it the intensity of fighting games, or the variety of enemies in platformers, or even the experiments of your peers online? Whatever it is, you can do all that too. Not right away, no, but you're never going to get there if all you do is play it safe and act uninterested.
Please, if I'm allowed to ask, please put more effort into what you're doing. I'm sick of coming here and watching people squander their potential. It feels like the people here don't even realize that they have potential to begin with. I don't care if art is your life or art is your hobby, just have the guts to make something that's enjoyable.
RE: So, this section... - Ton - 05-27-2015
I love this topic. It's something that has been bugging me for a while. We used to have a thriving community when it came to custom work, but everyone has kind of slowed down from that (myself included).
That's one of the reasons I'm glad contests have made a small comeback recently.
I remember when a new game would prompt half of the community to work on 2D versions of characters and get tips and alterations from each other. It was awesome.
I'm not really sure how to recapture that. Without sprite comics and animations that drive the community, what do people have to work toward? I'm open to suggestions, because those were great times.
RE: So, this section... - Cyberguy64 - 05-27-2015
I think a lot of it is that some people, myself included, have a need for approval. So we end up getting into a rut of spriting things and then putting them up fast so that we can bask in the views, favorites, likes, thanks, etc.
I'm trying to break free of that tendency and actually put some serious work into my... work. But it is a hard rut to break out of. Since this regressive sprite culture is a lot of people's first exposure to the art form it becomes the norm for them, throwing them straight into the rut from the get go.
The question is, where does my stuff fall into the categories? what can we do to encourage people to make more ambitious stuff, especially if they're just starting out and don't even have a grip on the basics yet?
RE: So, this section... - Quirby64 - 05-27-2015
I can agree on all of this, even if it means saying I make unoriginal sprites (which is true)
. However, I'd like to point out that there might be a lot of new pixel artists here for the fact that all the "retro","pixelated", and "8-bit" games on the indie games market would bring more people to their attention the art of spriting. Seeing games like that or just older games brings new pixel artists, new pixel artists = n00bs. That and some peope might've left or do other things.And on another note, characters like Scott Pilgrim, Steve (the Minecraft character), and the folks from River City Ransom can go by despite being simplistic.
I dun get it.
RE: So, this section... - MrYoshbert - 05-27-2015
Quote:I have to force myself to even look at the sprites in this section, they're so boring. I can't imagine most passerbys would care to stop and look, either. Art is a lot more fun when there's some vigor between you and the people you share it with. If you just want to make sprites that can only elicit a "meh," then I have no idea why you even do it at all.
This part right here punched me right in the gut. Actually, that entire post took the wind outta me. Coming from a spriting novice who's posted nothing but Mario-related sprites during his entire stay at this place, I'm feeling really ugly right now... and for good reason.
There's no doubt that the hesitation for newbie spriters to break out of their comfort zone is a big issue here, but I think time is also a factor in all of this.
For a number of folks here (I assume), spriting is something they really want to get into, but at the same time an infrequent hobby. They would either prioritize other hobbies that they feel are more important to their interests over it, or find themselves bogged down by too much responsibility to dabble in it some more. As a result, they'll just pour all of their heart and soul into a single static sprite of some character in a still and stiff standing pose, slap it on tSR/DeviantArt/whatnot, turn around, and never look back.
Then they'd think, "I'm really proud of this, but it's not something I see myself doing a lot. No point in attempting to be ambitious in an area I'm not even going to come back to anyway." Coupled with the desire to seek approval and thumbs-up, as Cyberguy mentioned, this way of thinking becomes even more outrageous.
...now that I mention it, I see a lot of myself in this. It's a hard for me to swallow, but now I realize I'm contributing to the problem. Ouch.
RE: So, this section... - Dolphman - 05-28-2015
For me, seeing the Mystical Forest Zone break apart is what bummed me out as it was the largest Sonic Spriting comminity. I was part of a project called ModGen. We were working on a major project of making Sonic characters in this style akin to the Genesis games.
But the site's forum went down after the new owner claimed he was revamping it, which never happened and the site finally died last year. Well, he's pretty much the blame for destroying what was a great community. Sucks too, because we are lacking in custom Sonic content.
Everyone from MFZ have since been busy with their artwork and blogs. Can't remember the last time one member visited here.
Heck, who knows where the sprites are archived now, as the private Dropbox that had the wip sheets is gone too.
During that, I've mostly been focused on drawing, playing games, going to conventions and making sprites privately. Some of which I do plan on uploading once i feel they're ready. Many ones I've still yet to finish. Including incomplete rips for here.
Even visiting Deviantart makes me cringe when it comes to anything over there. Including sprites as there's a lot of shitty Sonic Advance edits and I fucking hate the style because of it, even avoiding fan games that uses the style. Rarely anything in Genesis style.
And that's sad too because there's this guy here. Those are some of the best Amy Rose sprites that aren't her modern design.
Oh, and another thing thing. As much as cool some of the sprites at Deviantart are. They seem to share the same boring old stock palette that looks like it came from Amiga games, despite the fact Amiga games are notorious for beautiful and awesome pixelart.
RE: So, this section... - Cyberguy64 - 05-28-2015
(05-28-2015, 12:12 AM)Dolphman Wrote: Oh, and another thing thing. As much as cool some of the sprites at Deviantart are. They seem to share the same boring old stock palette that looks like it came from Amiga games, despite the fact Amiga games are notorious for beautiful and awesome pixelart.
THANK YOU! I'm not the only one sick of seeing dull, desaturated palettes in pixel art!
RE: So, this section... - Gors - 05-28-2015
Two cents time
Let's be honest. As much as your complaint is valid and I agree with your words in every way, this will change nothing in this community - communities' momentum are based on inspiration, and if you complain but don't inspire, you have just solved half of the equation here, and half an answer is still not a right answer.
I understand that we, veterans, don't produce any more stuff like we used to do. Most of us are already in our twenties. I work a government job, I study, I have deadlines to meet and failing to meet them can mean losing the stuff I've earned professionally until now. I don't mean to justify - but I am not on my 15's already and I don't have enough free time as much as I wanted to make more things, and I'm sure that I'm not the only case.
Short free times mean quicker art medias are going to be favoured - this is why I started trying digital art (and even then I lost some sleep with them, whoops). Pixelart is cool and all but it's impractical for quick production, especially if better quality pieces are concerned.
Long story short, I think I am long overdue in this community's pixelart scene. I still do a thing or two but I cannot consistently inspire people anymore (let's not forget all the projects I had that fell over due to no progress). Everyone is at 'fault' here, but it's not a proposital fault. Things come and go and for me, this is my verdict.
Needless to say, I'll try making a thing or two despite my lack of time, but a single sparrow does not make a summer - I (we) will need more people interested in inspiring each other.
RE: So, this section... - E-Man - 05-28-2015
I'm not exactly sure if this is the same thing, but a big reason why I create my Paper Mario "sprites" is that I honestly want to use them in a bigger project. Sure, I dabbled with pixels before, but I ended up stopping because it's not worth the effort to create sprites that I probably wouldn't use myself.
Also, the idea of just sticking to one thing without branching out is a big point. Even though I'm currently focusing on the Mario world for my project, I actually relish the idea of moving onto other game worlds when I get the chance. In fact, what's honestly stopping me from tackling my own ideas? While I might need a bit of a bigger team and support before I begin significant groundwork on new series, I don't see why I can't include completely original characters (not just a Bob-omb with a cool accessory or something like that) in my fan work as "cameos" and then migrate them back into their intended projects.
RE: So, this section... - Ton - 05-28-2015
I also think that the lack of comments make this place pretty difficult to use. Topics sit around with nobody but OP posting in them. Can we all try an experiment? Just pick 2-3 topics in this subforum and try to post something constructive. Maybe a little activity will help give us a nice boost to creativity and drive? I'll give it a shot. Feel free to join me!
RE: So, this section... - Garamonde - 05-28-2015
That's true but a big reason that people don't get criticism is that most of the more experienced artists have left or don't come often anymore so there's kinda hardly anyone around who can really give much quality criticism eheheh
But as Gors said, I think a big thing is also that people have moved on in life and either don't have time or have found other interests. It's also probably that spriting in general isn't exactly a contemporary art form anymore, aside from those who still have a particular fondness for pixel art and (at least somewhat) actively -- or occasionally -- practice it.
RE: So, this section... - recme - 05-28-2015
(05-28-2015, 12:37 PM)Mighty Jetters Wrote: a big reason that people don't get criticism is that most of the more experienced artists have left or don't come often anymore so there's kinda hardly anyone around who can really give much quality criticism eheheh
to be honest, giving c+c these days is nothing but a hassle. i feel that if i give a newbie some crits, they always reject the advice that is given. even if you force it down their throat, they eventually end up leaving the community because of how they felt "attacked." (ex: slapbadmine???)
i mean, why bother helping people who dont want help? this whole mindset really changed the nature of this subforum, making it out to be a showcase of progress rather than someone having a need for improvement. its becoming very similar to a blog, really.
RE: So, this section... - Garamonde - 05-28-2015
Well there's sadly always going to be people who cry when their butts aren't patted lol
RE: So, this section... - Cyberguy64 - 05-28-2015
There was a guy on Sonic Retro who had an utterly crap sprite he kept showing off. Even after I, and numerous other people explained what he was doing wrong and showed examples of how to do it right, his only response was essentially "Thanks for being honest, but I'm gonna keep doing things my way even if it's bad."
Really, what can you do?
RE: So, this section... - Omega - 05-28-2015
Well as we get older our interest start to change, when old veterans leave nobody is gonna be around much to guide the newbies to become like us, that and a lot of other factors are involved, life, effort and segregation among things that happen to lots of websites and forums.
I'm just glad TSR/Pixeltendo/Vgr/Whatever still exist through and plenty of old members and few new members are around every day.