Super Smash Bros. Imitation: Demo now working

[D2S-Speed]

This engine is not half bad, congrats.

[shyan]

That could be true, but it also is affected how the individual images are made and put together.

I will consider your advice, but don't expect it to be changed because I don't completely agree with it. Let's take another image for example:

This is Kirby's current Vulcan Jab (absent the air blasts); it contains 25 subimages, which involves throwing punches at high speed in five directions. This appears to be going at 10 fps because of Lunapic slowing method, but in the game it runs 6x faster (it runs at game speed, 60 fps). Viewing the animation at 10 fps is truely watching it in slow motion and the viewer couldn't possibly feel how powerful the punches are thrown as this low speed. (It loops through itself 2.4x per second, which is 12 punches per second... instead of two punches per second shown here)

Using the same aforementioned method to accelerate the image to make it appear faster (by removing certain appropriate frames), I've come up with this.

It includes 4/25 of the original frames to make it run approximately at the same speed as it normally runs in game (I've removed 5/6ths of the frames), except at 10 fps. Chopping out excessive frames loses a lot of detail, when the difference in speed is this great. Even the regular punch or any animation I've made up to this point runs at 40 fps minimum. (Even the shortened punch edit would have to be accelerated at least twice as fast as it is now.)

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On a different note, I've sprited Dr. Robotnik and thus completed the first image of each of my three planned characters. Cartoony and simplicity is the theme.

When I began SSBI production, I told myself to start small and go up from there. I wouldn't have a preset roster of 20+ characters initially, instead I was going for 3 when I was to release my first gameplay demo (the current demos aren't a gameplay demo, but more a physics beta). The characters I originally planned were Kirby (Light), Mario or Yoshi (?)(Medium), and Dr. Robotnik (heavy). I was following a simple rule to use a single character from a different game, and hopefully different afflilations as well (Hero, Villain, etc), I can keep you updated on all the works I will be producing in the future.

[triptych]

Using the same aforementioned method to accelerate the image to make it appear faster (by removing certain appropriate frames), I've come up with this.

It includes 4/25 of the original frames to make it run approximately at the same speed as it normally runs in game (I've removed 5/6ths of the frames), except at 10 fps. Chopping out excessive frames loses a lot of detail, when the difference in speed is this great. Even the regular punch or any animation I've made up to this point runs at 40 fps minimum. (Even the shortened punch edit would have to be accelerated at least twice as fast as it is now.)

you're already lying in the first sentence of this chunk of text

the "aforementioned method" did not say to just remove any frame you feel like, it said to remove uneeded tween frames, there is a difference between following advice and blindly ignoring advice

if you don't want advice on your game just say so, there's no need to make yourself look like an idiot while you blindly defend your (very very incorrect) stance on animation in pixel art against a community of people who have worked with both pixel art and pixel art in games for years

[shyan]

I was pointing out how quickly those animations loop in game due to inability to do otherwise using online animations. When minimalizing the frames in the 4/25 version, I had few leftover images to work with (I indeed kept every 6th image), so there was little chance I could keep the feel of Vulcan Jab within 4 frames. The punch contains 16 images, and the punch edit contained 8. The duration of holding the hand in front of Kirby was quartered, in saving a frame in the recovery stance. Of course, I can't ignore that it is 8/16 which is getting the same picture down in half the time, or doubling its effective animation speed in whatever fps I use.

Now before this gets too much out of control, I'd like things to calm down. I wouldn't ask anyone not to express their opinion about the general sprites, and I encourage and value their feedback. I just agree on some things, and disagree on other things.

[triptych]

there was little chance I could keep the feel of Vulcan Jab within 4 frames.

no one ever said you needed to make such an extreme change as this one




also
take note tsr
this is why i'm overly abrasive in the sprite forums
no one listens otherwise

[Bazzoka]

Well, I'd like to note, good job on the engine. Works pretty well. But what's with Kirby's up tilt?

On note of the animations, I have to agree with the majority. It's certainly not slowed down due to the framerate being so high but it just has a sense of not being fast, like what Baegal said. Honestly, if you just get rid of some unneeded frames, this will be a whole lot better. You don't need to cut frames to match the in game speed. Just cut some out so it loses that slow motion feel.

[shyan]

To princaiple wailson>
I've been around some users threads, that contain works made by the threads author. Depending on the quality of the work or the individual, these threads can be quite harsh and contain some hostility, especially toward people newer to the world of spriting. Survival of the fittest is definately not the way, we want people of all skill levels to come to TSR to better the understanding of spriting and all its aspects. Don't we?

When I was first referred to the forum, I set in my mind to make this the best spriter site, or do my hardest trying. TSR, a friendly and a fun place for people to showcase their art, and seek inputs from other people with similar interests. This was achieved by providing informative and helpful input on the persons work (the words doesn't have to be strong or harsh to get a message across). Unless I am mistaken and this is an elitist forum, spriters of all skills should feel welcome to come to TSR. Through my many experiences in forums I've been to, people like to have a good time and have fun on the forum. They like to feel welcome.

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If I can help it, I'd like to keep the current animations as they are. Since this is a spriter community, I can post any future animations produced to check if it looks weird, is going too slow, has misplaced pixels, looks choppy, or if it is actually good as is.

About Kirby's Up Tilt and other Original Moves>
The Kirby up tilt is one of the planned "new moves" for Kirby I've made up in the past to put a new spin on the characters regarding moves I never really agreed with. Lots of characters were really flexible and able to perform sometimes difficult moves with relative ease. Doing a standing split to attack up was used by many characters (Fox, Jigglypuff, Snake, Sheik, etc), and I wanted to try doing something new for characters to make their moves more unique from other characters.

The next animation due is Up Charge, Tilt and Smash.
Kirby will retain his Backflip Kick smash, but possibly adopt a new Up Tilt. I've noticed that every Tilt and Smash Kirby currently has uses it's feet to attack, and I'd like to deviate from it. Considerations are going in Star attacks, similar to Princess Peach's Up Tilt producing a Heart in Brawl...

...In Brawl, when Peach uses her up tilt, she places her hand in the air to produce a heart for a brief second then evaporates. I was looking for a similiar effect; if Peach used Heart Power (witnessed using this power in M&L:BiS, she used Heart Power to throw Bowser out of the castle), why couldn't Kirby use Star Power?...

...I have to admit, stars are kind of Kirby's thing. Peach has hearts, Mario has fireballs, Kirby has stars. Kirby can create stars to attack while riding on a Wheelie or using Cancel Beam, absorb monsters and spit them out as stars, even landing on the ground produces a star...

...The Up charge may look somewhat similar to Kirby's forward charge; except he pivots with the opposite foot, has a lower to the ground stance, the arms are steeper, and he puts his back foot slightly behind himself readying for a up smash. The attack itself (I call it Star Palm), Kirby reverses and quickly reaches as high as he can reach with his forward hand, this action produces a star at the tip of Kirby's reach (not included in the animation). Kirby reaches so high so quickly, he is forced to the tips of his toes and moves the back foot he moved earlier forward. Once the move is completed, Kirby falls back into his Stance.

...With Kirby, they implemented many of Kirby's powers into his gameplay, but didn't give him anything NEW.

It's the same with Mario. They implemented his powers into his gameplay, but not created anything more...

[Tea]

Spriters of all skills are welcome.
Ones who dont take crits arent.
You are somewhere in the middle. You sort of attempted to follow crits, but now are trying to escape it.
Also, in game, the sprites look ok, but you would be better off with less frames.
Also, good idea to deviate from the feet.

[shyan]

I try my hardest to interpret the crits, and then provide my own honest opinions about them. Sometimes it comes to a consensus where we agree on something inbetween. It aids to have these discussions to discover each persons own point of view.

Maybe your right. I'll review the images and animations, and cut out some uneeded frames, like stall frames (evident in the punch, Kirby holding his arm in one spot for 3-4ish frames) these were originally used as hit lag; but since the hit lag happens (animation pauses) when the character is hit, the animation probably no longer needs these frames. As long as it doesn't break or distort the original image I'll see what I can do.

[MagikSage]

Tea, the question is if Shyan is "trying to escape" or is he defending himself.

The feel I am getting from this thread is that someone has an opinion, criticism, advice, whatever you wish to call it (So far the issue has been dominated by frame-rate). Shyan then responds with his defense to justify why he did what he did. This is followed by one or two posts; either the original belief begin restated or someone taking offense that Shyan chose not to follow their opinion.

I have some advice for you: If you have given your advice thrice, and Shyan has not received it, then take peace to yourself; depart and let the matter go. This is advice freely given. Take it or leave it-- but refrain from commenting on this paragraph and sowing undue stress.

My impatience has unable to test the game, but hold this belief for now: Shyan is obligated to do what he thinks is best in regard to his game. Give advice for it could strengthen a soul, but do not take offense if your words are esteemed as a second-choice-dish.

My final words are to you Shyan. You say that "using fewer images to convey an animation is the easy way out". My stance on the matter is that if using the jump-frame-technique* makes the animation better, then it should be done and is not the easy way out. I am not arguing for you to make your animations longer or shorter, or even discussing what factors dictate what method to use. I am reminding you that the means creates the end; what may not build your end could be the best choice for another. Seek good things.

*The jump-frame-technique is a term that I just made up to briefly describe what was said in a lengthier manner prior to my post.

[sage naruto is alive]

Do you need goku, naruto, and ichigo?

[warned for a useless 5 month old Bump, if OP needs this thread reopened, ask anyone from the staff to do so.]