My honest thought on Smash Bros Project

[ThePortalGuru]

Jesus, why is MFGG more organized and dedicated than we are?

Because there's no real design doc. From what little I've seen it looks like there's no set direction, heck, you're still discussing attacks in some threads.

To be brutally honest, I don't see this ever succeeding. You got to at the very least simplify the art style and animations. Iceman's NES SSB was farther along graphically, and it still looked amazing.

Hey, I have an idea. How about a another sub forum in the community section to discuss design aspects of the project? We could focus more on getting a big picture of what we want before tackling all the assets.

[Sengir]

Hey, I have an idea. How about a another sub forum in the community section to discuss design aspects of the project? We could focus more on getting a big picture of what we want before tackling all the assets.

this. you need a full, solid base to work off of, you can't just work off half of a base

[arün]

Why does every spriting site want to make a shitty 2D smash bros game

[Negative-Zer0]

Why does every spriting site want to make a shitty 2D smash bros game

??? Cept the fact that we have been doing everything in our power to not make it shitty?

From our choice of programmer (Runouw, play his engine demo, say its shitty) to our choice of sprites.


The only thing that has me thinking that this game will not be as good as it could be is the wasted time on adding as many extra characters as possible that don't need to be there.

[arün]

They're shitty in that they don't tend to go anywhere and once they are completed (if that even happens), they usually aren't that great. You can't ever hope to outdo a professional product like Smash Bros. Even creating something remotely close is unlikely. Sure, his demo might be super dope, but I don't think a fan game created by so many people can be that great. I doubt it even feels like Smash Bros to begin with. If it did, he should be a famous indie game developer or be a coder for some company. Next, this is obviously a "team" effort, but the number of people involved seems to be hindering progress. Even on the first page, it's obvious that "this is not going to be finished". It's obvious, considering how long this thread has been stretching on for, that not everyone is too dedicated. Why seek to imitate an already existing project? Why not just try something original.

[Ton]

Um. They don't go anywhere once completed cause they're... done? Where do you go from there? We don't want to outdo an existing product. This is just something for fun. None of us is being paid, so it's a distraction for us to do in our spare time. That's why progress is slow. Will it ever get done? Probably not, but that doesn't mean we should just close up shop. "If it did, he should be a famous indie game developer or be a coder for some company." Yeah, but you don't work for a famous programming company and then make fan games. It's the other way around.
Thanks for the two cents, but it's nothing we haven't heard before. Kindly fuck off.

[arün]

"Kindly fuck off."

lol

Some minor editing to look at this again:

"None of us is being paid, so it's a distraction for us to do in our spare time"

You've already said it's a distraction. Distractions are never good - they prevent you from actually doing shit that people will appreciate. So what if you aren't being paid? The entire indie gaming community is not being paid, yet they manage to create great games which people care about, yet they still manage to pump out a shit tonne of games every year. (However, I'd like to note that a lot of them aren't very good.)

I didn't phrase myself as well as I could have, so I'll revisit something in my previous post. You've got someone who I assume is an amateur programmer. Some guy previously told me that the demo is the shit. It might be, but being something that you find to be a "distraction" for you to do in your spare time would suggest that it doesn't get as much effort as what you do during your non-spare time. The guy isn't a professional programmer and I've never heard of him before. There's still a chance he's a programming genius, but if he was, by now he would probably be making games better than 2D Smash Bros demakes. That's what I meant to say. I'm really surprised this is "nothing you haven't heard before" - your reaction doesn't suggest that. Smash Bros games have been done a million times and never do well simply because they aren't Smash bros. Why would I play an inferior Smash Bros "demake" when I could just play the real thing? As I've already said, this has been done a million times before. It's obvious you guys have put a lot of effort into this project, but the fact I've never heard of this Smash Brothers Project is another testament to the fact that it is pretty pointless. Even if you do finish it, who's going to play it?

Also, I didn't mean to upset you. I'm still impressed by how much work has gone into the project and some of the sprites are pretty great.

[Tarvonas]

Yeah, the key phrase there is "for fun". And the best thing is, not only is it for fun, but it's rewarding, because every little sprite you complete, you just know will be put into Runouw's freakin' awesome game.

You could say we're imitating Smash Bros, yeah. But then again, Brawl was a disappointment. At least in my eyes. Most of the added characters make me want to throw up, and the decent ones even still can't compare to the countless awesome choices they could've decided on. You see, what we're doing here is making our own version of the series. We're putting what we want, how we want it. That means cooler characters. Cooler stages, and cooler whatever the hell else we can make. No damned four year (I don't know how many years) wait for some gravity fixes that pretty much ruined the fast-paced action of the game, and some characters that I'd never glance twice at. One of the few good things other than the stage builder (which in itself was horribly bland) was the graphic improvement. Hmm.

On top of that, there's the fact that even when it's finished, we can continue to make character sheets, and Runouw can continue to add them. Or if he can't be bothered, we can put them in ourselves with Runouw's Character creator. Like our own little version of updated/downloadable content. Something the Nintendo Wii failed to do.

You see, we've got a game developer that actually listens to us fans, as opposed to the money. Our ideas can actually be implemented into the game (unless they're just plain bad). And therefore, the possibilities are endless.

[arün]

You've got a valid point - there are people that didn't like Brawl. However, rather than creating their own game from scratch, they took advantage of the elaborate code and graphics that have already been laid out for them. It's not Source Engine, but I'm impressed with the number of Smash mods there are out there. You can download custom characters, true custom stages with new textures and such, and even "physics" mods. If you don't know what I'm talking about, check out http://smashmods.com/.

I'd also like to add that the percentage of gamers who disliked Brawl is considerably less than the percentage of those who didn't. Brawl is still one of the best selling games on the Wii console. For those that don't like it, simply sticking with the older games (as done by the competitive Smash community) or modding the current version is a lot more practical. And trust me, there are some pretty god damn cool mods out there.

Even creating your own fighter in MUGEN (LOL) would have been more practical and more original than trying to create a facsimile Smash game.

[Ton]

Maybe, but... meh.

[ThePortalGuru]

You've got someone who I assume is an amateur programmer.

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTT.

I'm sorry, but at 18 years old, Rob is a fucking GENIUS programmer.

Take a look at this. The man knows this technical shit like the back of his hand. There is literally no better man to get in terms of Flash programming.

[arün]

He could be a genius, but he is still an amateur. An amateur doesn't mean "noob", it just means he's not a professional. I don't mean amateur in a derogatory sense at all, just that he's not employed (to my knowledge). As you've said, he's a genius - that's great.

[Ton]

Yeah, and I feel terrible that he's wasting his time with us because we're not doing anything. Truth is I'm not such a good custom spriter. You guys are much better than I am. If I was up to snuff I'd do much more, but that's why I tried to take more of a leadership role in the beginning. I worked on Porky for a while, but it just got too hard doing new angles, so I'm taking a break.
I'm not sure what I can do to motivate.

[Dils]

You're right in saying that there's already been made too many Smash Bros-Flash games already. But if this is finished, it'll be the first one with good... well everything. And that's reason enough to do it.

[Negative-Zer0]

The only reason the project doesn't go anywhere is precisely becuase it is seen as a distraction. This "distraction" is holding one of the greatest smash programmers of our time back becuase we can't see the TRUE potential of this project.

If all other smash projects were to go down the tubes right now, I wouldn't care. Most have bad engines. SSF2 has a terrible roster, but this is the only project I would at least attempt to save, becuase it is honestly worth that much, and I think that is the way we should have treating it.