turn-based jrpgs

[Jalopes]

what is your opinion on them (games like final fantasy, dragon quest, chrono trigger, etc)

Lately it seems games like this aren't really being taken seriously/being made for consoles (the exception being Lost Odyssey and maybe a few more), and I can sort of understand why, but at the same time I find it a little saddening. These were some of the best games for older consoles like the PS1 (imo), but they aren't really as appealing to the general gaming crowd anymore.

like final fantasy vii for example, i have a hard time finding anybody on the internet (excluding like gamefaqs and ff fan forums) that actually likes it - they argue its too cliched, the story makes no sense, turn based battles (especially with the atb) is shit, etc. valid arguments from one perspective i suppose, but i personally think the game is very well executed and entertaining - the story is a little convoluted, but its still engaging and has some great characters

i'm mostly just curious what you guys think of them because i very rarely come across people that dont find them boring and unappealing; is it true that these games are an acquired taste and could never again be totally relevant in the modern world?

[Shadowth117]

I think its just one of those genre's that's "going out of style" if you will. 3D Platformers are doing about the same thing as well as a few other genres I'm sure. I don't think its really that nobody would like them in this day and age, but they just aren't really being made as much anymore. A lot of the time they're just being either overtaken by Western or Action RPG's now. Its not that they aren't around anymore, but there just aren't nearly as many. Pokemon still runs fine for example and I'd like to say Final Fantasy as well except for the fact that XIII seriously blew (Don't care what anyone says, pressing the A button until you win the game is no different from Mario Party). Still, while there are titles of the genre still coming out and some of them are very good, its definitely not a mainstream type of game anymore.

As for FFVII, I did enjoy the game a lot, but a lot of people just get annoyed with the hype it receives and so harp on it.

[Jalopes]

one thing i've noticed in particular is how when they are made, its generally for handhelds; all the ff remakes, golden sun dark dawn, nostalgia, newer pokemon games, etc

I think the last big one for a mainstream home console was Lost Odyssey, which I don't think sold very well (in North America, anyway).

[Omegajak]

one thing i've noticed in particular is how when they are made, its generally for handhelds; all the ff remakes, golden sun dark dawn, nostalgia, newer pokemon games, etc

I think the last big one for a mainstream home console was Lost Odyssey, which I don't think sold very well (in North America, anyway).

You know why one DID?

Persona 3 and 4 baby, YEAH. Oh wait....


Honestly, Glukom, people are just growing up and growing pains suck. You thought you had your shit together with games you thought you knew what good was, and once upon time there was NO argument to FF7. None. before anyone wants to jump in and say they didn't like FF7 from onset, you are/were a minority.

No one remembers, or wants to remember 2001 cause it seems childish, "Dude did you play FF7?!" "Hellz yeah boiiii!" It use to be cool, like Squaresoft/Enix use to be a good thing. Now everyone has either convinced themselves they have better taste or that they had none 10 years ago. Look at Sonic, look at Donkey Kong.

I vaguely remember a turn based JRPG that people LOVED and wanted all up in and couldn't wait (I'm actually still waiting) for the next iteration of: Breath of Fire. Seriously, Dragons? Princess's? Monkey's? Dogs? Tigers? That shit use to make people creme. Now people need more in the battle systems they need shit to be so complicated yet simple. It's a tall order to make a RPG in todays' markets (Must be why Square refuses to do new IP's)but I feel all the hate is a trend and will pass and then the glorious days will be back again. Hopefully we won't be too old to enjoy it by then.


BTW I want to finish Nostalgia so bad honestly that game is Skies of Arcadia 2. Maybe I'm a overhype guy, but I'd like to think the way I felt about a good solid game when I was 10 is the exact way I'd feel and react to it now.

[Koopaul]

What about the Dragon Quest series. I love those games!

[Helmo]

Dragon Quest X is for Wii definatly gonna get that

[Koopaul]

I don't know why people are so critical of games these days. A lot of people here seem quite snobbish with their tastes if you ask me.

[Jalopes]

i haven't played many dragon quest games personally, but even its most recent main game was for a handheld

dq10 is for wii though, so thats different

[Omegajak]

I don't know about you guys, but when it comes to my Dragon Quest intake (or any other Akira Toriyama inspired story) I need my turn based RPG to have some quality shit.

i.e

[Koopaul]

I could really do without that narration though.

[SKELTON S. SKELETON]

One of the biggest problems with JRPG's these days, is the developers making them don't have the right kind of mindset/experience for it, or are still making the same games they would've been making on the SNES. the persona series game is *good* because the developers experiment with not only mechanics, but tone and atmosphere. Persona is a good example again because the games are the total sum of an experience that ties together rather nicely.

In general, JRPG's tend to be: very thin stories and an excuse for the developers to experiment with mechanics.
this is another bizarre thing about JRPG's, they exist in kind of a 'vacuum' by themselves.
In other genre's, popular mechanics are copied by other developers and sometimes improved upon.
It's the evolution from a games like

Halo ----> Kill.Switch -----> Gears of War

with the JRPG as a genre, mechanics are seldom improved upon or copied from other developers.
PERSONA is identifiable by its mechanics, as are games like SaGa and Dragon Warrior.

[GrooveMan.exe]

Turn-Based JRPGs are also flagging as a genre; you can kinda tell because new releases make big claims to go back to 'traditional gameplay styles' rather than really progressing in any way. DQ9 and 4 Heroes of Light are good examples.

Doesn't help that some of the most popular JRPGs have the worst mechanics. The ATB system has always been terrible. Forever.

[Jalopes]

everyone tells me they hate the atb system but i like it

It keeps battles moving, making it so instead of just choosing attacks then waiting for all of them and enemy attacks to go through, there's a constant stream of commands to make. I dunno its more fun that way :I

[GrooveMan.exe]

Ugh, no. You either get the option of
- Fumbling around with clunky menu systems every 30 seconds while the enemy attacks you, or
- Wait 30 seconds to do a move, wait another 30 seconds.

Both of those options suck. I don't need to be timed or rushed into making moves, thanks. There's no real advantage to playing ATB well either, compared to SMT's Press Turn/Assist/Once More system, or Mario RPG's timed hits, or DQ9's Combos. At least in those systems mastering the mechanics means you have a better damage output, or take less damage. Mastering ATB means you get to wait less, marginally.

[Jalopes]

pretty much every game with an ATB (final fantasy for sure) gives you a "wait" option that makes it so enemies can't attack you while you're choosing moves/magic/which enemy to hit/etc

and the only time you ever have to wait is like in the very beginning of the game if you have like one party member, otherwise people's bar's will be filling up consistently as you fight

the atb is just a way to keep battles moving, and it works surprisingly well if you play through more than 10 minutes of a game that uses it