North London Riots

[ThePortalGuru]

Hey, just a question. Are police allowed to use lethal force if their own lives are in danger? Because I've heard that the guy who they shot was certainly firing at them with the intention of killing. If that's true, the rioters are a bunch of fucking idiots.

Not that they aren't fucking idiots anyway.

[Lemonray]

I'm sure armed officers are legally allowed to defend their lives, as well as the lives of other officers and innocents, with lethal force if they have no other alternative means of stopping dangerous criminals.

I'm not quite so sure about the average police officers and riot cops, though.



Watching BBC now. This is so insane, fucking hell those fires.

[Woppet*]

I'm pretty sure anyone is allowed to return the same force they're being attacked with.
But the reason for the riots is that some people believe that the guy didn't actually have a gun, or that it was a replica.
And from a BBC report i read, they mentioned that it is suspected that the bullet the man fired at an officer which was longed in his radio was actually a police bullet lodged in there by one of the officers.
Nothing is confirmed though, and there is certainly no reason to go rioting around the streets. If they had kept a peaceful protest I'm sure they would have been more than willing to look into the issue and deal out the appropriate punishment to the officer responsible if it turned out to be true.

[GrooveMan.exe]

Hey, just a question. Are police allowed to use lethal force if their own lives are in danger? Because I've heard that the guy who they shot was certainly firing at them with the intention of killing. If that's true, the rioters are a bunch of fucking idiots.

Not that they aren't fucking idiots anyway.

You're oversimplifying it. The Met did release a statement that it was a 'gunfight'; and there's prior evidence that the man they shot had a previous criminal record, knew he was being chased by the police and was apparently planning to leave town - but there is no real solid evidence of this actual gunfight, or even if the guy had a gun in the first place.

This makes it very hard to say that the situation was all above board on the part of the police. Ordinary policemen don't have firearms - only special forces do (called out for terrorist attacks or otherwise work at airports) If it escalated to the point where they need to get special forces in, and no one was shot prior, wouldn't shooting this guy be the absolute last thing to be tried?

Basically, a lot of the North East London councils are shit, the areas these youths live in are pretty shit, the way the police handles the majority of street crimes is shit, and the people who are rioting and looting just because they can are incredibly shit, and a potential danger to me and my friends.

Fuck, it was reported that Birmingham, a city about an hour and a half away from London by train has started up it's own riot. With no cause, no apparent provocation. It's scary; and even in my privileged middle-class situation, I don't feel entirely safe.

[GaryCXJk]

Okay, so here's how I see it.

Man may or may not have used a gun.

Woman got decked when she got too close.

Riots happen.

To me, it's not nearly as retarded as the riots in Greece, I mean, god damn, why did they have to last so long? Is it even resolved there? But anyway. It's still retarded.

I hate this Earth. It's because I am principially against suicide, otherwise I would have left for another world.

[GrooveMan.exe]

It's funny how distant and dismissive someone can be when they're not being directly affected, huh?

[GaryCXJk]

Dude, I live in a country where riots only last a day, whether they're hooligan riots after a football match or someone being shot in the face by the police. Yes, that's the kind of people the Dutch are. Call us weak, but at least we don't go disrupt our own economy with riots.

We do that by voting for an extremist party who does jack shit.

[GrooveMan.exe]

So what you're saying is "I'm being flippant because my personal experiences don't match up with yours."?

Fuck you.

[Chris2Balls [:B]]

Let's avoid continuing a "FUCK YOU""NO YOU""NO YOU" argument. You're both warned.

[PatientZero]

(The Greek riots were caused by an economic crisis and political decisions, they lasted so long because the people believed in what they were fighting for and they banded together, just want to point it out because it seems horrendously offensive to just dub them "stupid" and let it stand.)

I just wanted to touch on the firearms thing, guns are pretty well verboten over here, with the exception of heavily restricted shotgun and rifle licenses for farmers and game wardens, but they're not quite as rare as you might imagine, I'm not saying every second-rate stickup artist has a gun, but if you know the right people and shake the right hands, you can get one.

Personally I wouldn't bother, since you've broken the law just by owning it, but the wrong kind of people can get them is what I'm saying.

Obviously it's still up in the air exactly what happened, but if the police are dealing with an armed suspect their immediate priorities are very clear, disarm them, or if that isn't an option, take them out.
It makes no difference if the gun is actually a toy or a replica or not even there at all, if they think a gun is involved they have to act like it.
It's a very tough call for them and not one I would like to make myself, if the suspect does shoot someone they're at fault for not stopping them fast enough, and if they shoot the suspect before anyone is hurt, they get slated for police brutality.

And as we're seeing now, with the alarming trend of anarchism going on, that can get out of hand very quickly.

I don't have enough information to go on and take a solid stand on either side of the fence, I'm definitely against the outbreak of violence and looting over the situation, but the only thing I can really say at this point is that I hope it passes quickly and we see as few casualties as possible.
If the motivation was an ongoing situation I could see the need for immediate and definitive action, if it was something serious enough I could even imagine myself being involved in it, but when you're rioting over something you can't possibly change, that has already happened, there's nothing to be gained and a hell of a lot to lose.

[Rhyme]

UK PSN data center burned down.. which is kinda funny cause microshit was making fun of sonys data centers.. but still :l

[Sonikku]

UK PSN data center burned down..

does everyone in the world hate the PSN recently or what

[Dazz]

UK PSN data center burned down.. which is kinda funny cause microshit was making fun of sonys data centers.. but still :l

Source?

Also, If I might just chime in on everyone saying "But I don't know the details so it's hard to comment" - nobody really knows the details because there are none. It appears to be that the riots are meaningless now, and it's simply kids wanting shit they can't afford. Some have even been quoted as just that.

[Chutzpar]

As far as I know, The Sony Centre burned down.
Which is pretty much fuck all to do with PSN.

Trust you fucking sperglords to care more about videogames than people.

nobody really knows the details because there are none.

So until details emerge the majority of people should shut up about it. I know in this age of crowdsourcing everyone seems to think that their opinion constitutes news, but it doesn't. All the wank from people on Twitter and Facebook does is confuse things and lead to misinformation.

That and the majority of people I've seen on facebook etc are just using this as an excuse to be classist or racist. Which isn't helping anyone.

[Rosencrantz]

jesus christ a friend kept linking me to various shit that kept popping up on reddit, just based on the riots that happened last night.


this


and this

both of these really stood out, and they're just disturbing.




Seriously, I hope everyone's alright. BBC reported one death last night (man got shot, left in his car during the Croydon riots, died at the hospital), and
well
honestly I'm just a little freaked out by all of this. I honestly hope all of this will be taken care of by tonight (at the latest)