Not this again...

[GaryCXJk]

After a year of working on Turbo Model Thingy and Nitro Model Thingy I decided, why not just get back into spriting? It's the only thing that comes close to drawing that I'm actually decent at, and it's about time anyway.

Time for what?

Well, time for...



Beeeeeh, the Afresh themes at least won't display this logo correctly...

But yeah, anyway, Project Captain N time again. This time I'm just going to sprite away, and see where it goes. Also, instead of just showing you guys a list of things I'm planning to do, I'll be showing things I currently am or have been working on, as well as some stuff I made just for practice.

So yeah, the biggest project so far must be Mona's redesign. Let me first show you how she used to look like.



That's one of the latest versions of her old design. While the sprite in itself is okay, it just doesn't have the same Mona spirit as in the original games. Now I did try to rework the sprite using this as a base, but the results weren't really successful.



I only got to the head with this, so the body was just a placeholder. The thing is, I didn't like any of the faces. They were just horrible. So then I thought, I did a comparison one day between Mega Man Zero and Mega Man ZX to see if the styles were compatible. While they are done in different styles on their own, when I edited them I was able to make them work without having style clashes. Take for example Kevin Keene (Vent if I'm correct) and old-style Mona (Ciel).



So then I remembered that I also made another comparison, that between the Mega Man Zero / ZX games and Jump! Superstars. While again they were different styles they could be made compatible. And it's not entirely impossible to do this. Take for example Super Smash Bros., which takes characters with vastly differing styles and unifies them so that they work in one game.

So, with that in mind, I used a character I knew looked sort of like Mona and basically used it as my basis for the new version.



Now the sprites can use a little bit more work, they're not perfect. Aside from the fact that they all make her seem a bit chubby, the color palette isn't really optimized. I believe the highest color count so far is 22. This however has been done so that I wouldn't need to restrict myself to a limited color palette now. I could just create the most crazy costumes without worrying about running out of colors. Another thing, though minor, is the fact that her feet are probably too small, but that can also easily be fixed.

Anyway, here's a shot of her next to two other characters.



So I've decided to continue with the project, but so far, I've mainly been working on the characters. In fact, I'm missing just one character that I need to sprite at the moment. But, what's also important is the backgrounds. I've already worked on some backgrounds, but most aren't really complete things you can easily work with at this point.





The one thing I should have worked on but hadn't was Kevin's bedroom. Sure it only comes up once or twice in the series, but it's still an important part of the series, as this is where it all began.



I do have to say, it's not done yet. It first of all needs a lot more clutter, and a lot more video games and systems. But I already have the basis. There also have been some slight changes on the room in comparison to what's in the original series of Captain N: The Game Master. First of all, there's a desk now on the right, which will contain a laptop, which is by the way just for show, and the television has been replaced by a flatscreen, as I want to put the series in 2009 now, about twenty years after the original.

Finally, there are some stuff I just wanted to show that I made but might not have shown here. First of all, Mona's scooter, an important part of her character.



While it was made during the time I still used the old sprite, it still works for the current version. Unfortunately I was always too lazy to actually sprite her on her scooter.



Originally I wanted to give Samus a bike, which is why I made this one, which is basically a blend of her flagships. I'm not sure if I'll ever use it, but if you want to use it, go ahead.



Another one of those things I'm not sure I've shown before, but it seems relevant to me to show it now.



This one finally has nothing to do with Project Captain N, other than that I've made it in the same sprite style. Guess who it is without watching the URL.

Anyway, as always, comments and criticism. I might post more later on, and if people want I could post the work I haven't posted here but did on other places and crap.

[Gors]

I didn't read everything, but I suggest using a custom spriting for the characters. This Megaman Zero style is obsolete and ugly anyway.

[Terminal Devastation]

I'm having trouble figuring out if Gors means that MMZ style in general is ugly and obsolete, or if its just this rendition of it.

Anyways,

If I'm reading this correctly, you're
A) Trying to mixing style elements into a single cohesive sprite.
B) Trying to get a characters charm/personality into a sprite.

You really are going to want to scratch the full sprite to do this because it suits what you are trying to do far better than a bunch of edits will and[obligatory TSR scratch makes you better line here].

Attempting to create a good looking sprite that mixes two styles AND shows personally using an edit, simply put, is a much slower method. There's a lot of wasted time in the process.
Here's why: Just converting a style into something that doesn't look completely out of place next to a different style, is at the very least a complete reshade, which is usually nearly as much pixel placement as a scratch sprite, and puting it fully in style is going to take just as much as a scratch... unless the styles are pretty close to begin with. These is only the minumums you can reach if you know exactly what you are doing. More time will be spend fixing it if you aren't as good at it.

Also, a bit of a tip for edits: Don't select a base for an edit just because it looks like the character you want it to be or because it has more moves than any other one. You should select a base because it provides the best framefor your sprite. In other words, how it acts and moves is closest to what the character you're trying to make is.

Now you're probably thinking: What if that sort of base doesn't exist, or the best base looks nothing like the character?
Well that's why its better to scratch... you can just take that "base", use it for a reference, and sketch pixel out a rough skeletal structure that matchs both your needs and the reference's positioning, and then use the result of THAT for your base. Saves you a lot of time you would be using to smash in some extra personality into the same old bases everyone else uses, since you'd have to edit them into different positions anyways.

[Gors]

I'm having trouble figuring out if Gors means that MMZ style in general is ugly and obsolete, or if its just this rendition of it.

the style in general is ugly and obsolete. This completely screams "noob sprite edits". I like the general idea, but this style really brings things down. Not to say that some Nintendo characters have caricature elements so they won't translate that well in this 'skinny people airhumping' style.

[Gaia]

What you COULD do is what do what Deebs, Clyent, and others done in the past with the Sonic 3&K style: Make a variant out of it.

Honestly, it's possible.. Just that I have to go with Gors/Arisa on this one, it's a bit dated (along with other certain styles). Also, there's a lot of banding/pillowing going on with some of the character's sprites, and a bit of pallete mangling, in which the characters are not under the pallete limit.

Yes that dog is bolt

[Gors]

or better than making a variant, don't follow any game style at all. Using your own style to these sprites can be much more rewarding and give the project a more personal touch to the characters. just my two cents though.

[GaryCXJk]

Yeah, after about nine years of working on this project, where halfway through I already got through a sprite change, I'm definitely going to start over AGAIN.

[Hoeloe]

This is why you ask for CC BEFORE spending years making all the graphics.

[Gors]

well, it's ok if you don't want to change the style



the only thing is that you'll have a shitton of mediocre sprites, that's all

[GaryCXJk]

This is why you ask for CC BEFORE spending years making all the graphics.

Thanks for the protip. Unfortunately nobody told me back in 2005, 2007, 2008, 2010 and... yeah, that was it mostly.

Thing is, the only thing that's actually Zero / ZX about the sprites is Kevin and Lana. Pit I believe was mostly done from scratch. Samus was entirely done from scratch because the ZX style didn't work for her at all.

I mean, I could do Kevin and Lana from scratch now, that's not a problem, they're only two sprites. The thing is, you guys are basing it over the fact that I mentioned ZX and Zero. Fuck, even the size doesn't match. I literally had to upscale the sprites so that I can actually sprite a Diglett without it looking like two pixel shit. Trying to sprite Pikmin in this style (or any style other than HD) would be practically suicide.

I'm not going to spend a whole fucking year again to come up with yet another sprite style. The current way I altered the sprites make them already different from ZX and Zero, you almost can't call it that style anymore.

Also, where were you guys when I made this?



Seriously, if you're going to bitch about the style of the sprites, you should have done it back in the time periods I was more active at spriting.

[Gaia]

Trying to sprite Pikmin in this style (or any style other than HD) would be practically suicide.

Duly noted, and CHALLENGE ACCEPTED. I've had experince in that style, and trust me, it ain't suicide once you know proper scaling. (Mino Magnus is the biggest non-screenhugger boss, Childre Inarbitta is the smallest)

Before anyone asks, the definition of screenhugger is a type of boss that takes up half the screen (Example: Being attached to one of the sides of the TV screen), usually a final boss.

[Vipershark]

It's not even the fact that they're Zero/ZX edits
they're just REALLY, REALLY 2006.

The color choices (among other things) are poor and it makes them look like a bad flash game or something.
I'm not saying you have to -completely redo- everything, but giving your sprites an update would be great, especially on the color choices.

[GaryCXJk]

Fortunately though, they're not even for a game. I'm not spriting these things to make some sort of game out of it. Heck, I moved past the point where I wanted to make a Flash animation out of it, demoting it to sprite comic now. Especially since I've asked a countless of times for help after people said, "Yeah, you should ask us for help man, we'd totally help out!"

You wanna know why I waited this long to show you these sprites? I didn't. This is probably the tenth time or so I've made a new topic about this, only this time, I've only shown you the sprites I made NOW. I bet you guys don't even know how horrible they looked like before I moved on to a slightly bigger style.

The thing is, using bright colors was a concious choice. When working with Flash animations, you generally don't want the sprites to bleed with the background, be all dark and shit. You generally want the characters to stand out from the backgrounds. If I actually went with the actual ZX style, which is exactly what you guys would probably want, less saturated colors and all, especially with my track record in background creating, imagine how it would look like in motion. I mean, a more skilled spriter could probably make the backgrounds more desaturated without making it look like shit. For starters, I'm not that skilled, and the chance of anybody helping me out at this point is less than zero, and even if I was half as skilled as most of you, I'm making a sprite comic here. I used to be making a Flash animation. If I want to at least make this happen, I need to sacrifice something. That is, unless people FINALLY are going to freaking help out with this.

I mean, I can keep doing this for the next ten years, and I will until I finally at least popped out the first few chapters. Or people can actually help me out here, without bullshitting me about "I don't know jack shit about Captain N, even though you need more help with things I do know," or "You already are working on the stuff I could help out with, even though you never did call dibs on them."

The worst part is though that nobody on the Captain N forums has ever helped me out as well. I mean, it's excusable that you guys don't give two shits and / or fucks about this project. But I at least expected SOME help on that one forum that tries to bring Captain N back.

Either way, if you can give me pointers on how to make the colors work while both keeping the bright nature of the original games (or series, in the case of Kevin and Lana), I'll be open for suggestions. Samus though I do need to fix, because I'm not really a fan of her orange colors. That and I don't really like her zero suit form. Which is why I haven't even shown anything of her. But hey, you can judge it yourself.




Same goes to Pit, but that's more because I already have shown you guys stuff about Pit and you guys kept commenting about how the anti aliasing blurriness of his arrow shouldn't be on the sprite, despite me pointing out that it made use of a separate alpha blending image to achieve this "blurriness".

Also, Pikmin are at most the size of my thumb, and by extension, Kevin's thumb. If you really are making them to scale, they would be one pixel big.

[Terminal Devastation]

Wait... when did we say anything about more desaturated colors?
I'm pretty sure how vivid the colors are isn't an issue. I'm almost certain every complaint about the color pallete is either solvable with a change in contrast or a hue shift.

In short, palletes aren't bad because they are bright, but because their shades don't show off the details and shading clearly.

(also last I checked... ZX was VERY high contrast, and bright and colorful... Its MMZ style that's more desaturated...)

From my admitly lesser color palette experience, reds work nicely with a bright near pure red as the lightest/brightest shade, then a much darker red (Reds tend to blend in my experience, so you want higher than normal contrast with them) And then the darkest shade is either a dark purple or dark brown (the same you'd use for skin tone) depended on the overall shade of red you want.

Orange isn't a color I work with too often. But I use a yellow-orange for the highlight, and that same darkest skin tone brown for the darkest shade. But keep in mind you can change the appearance of a color just by adjusting how much of shade there is.

I've read blue to purple works well for blues... but I tend not to hue shift much for less purply blues.

Blacks are hard to explain. You actually want to have brighter highlights than you'd normally think. I like to call the shade 'light black', its sort of the color you appear to get when you color really lightly with a black crayon, but I think its just a slighty green or blue tinted meduim grey. And then you just darken from there, with minor other adjustments.

I think I'd let those more experienced with palletes correct me if I'm wrong, and take it from here.

[Vipershark]

Yeah, the problem is that your sprites have too little contrast.

While I personally think desaturating would help, what you need is contrast and hue shifting.
It looks like you picked your colors by dragging the slider up and down the brightness scale, and your colors all kind of blend together.
It makes your sprites look really amateur.