C+C And Style Discussion (Split from Nayr's Thread)

[StarSock64]

If he's not going to try to improve as an artist then he probably shouldn't post on tSR.

I'm pretty sure he has this style down. I think that's a pretty good indication it's time to move on. It takes motivation and strength to do that. If all you do is tell him "no it's okay you don't have to!" then he never will. This site is not about letting people stay pigeonholed so you don't hurt their feelings. This site is about improving.

This site's policy has always been, if you don't want C+C, then why are you posting? It's a waste of everyone's time. Why are we suddenly saying it's okay to ignore valid C+C?

[RokuGurin]

If he's not going to try to improve as an artist then he probably shouldn't post on tSR.

I'm pretty sure he has this style down. I think that's a pretty good indication it's time to move on. It takes motivation and strength to do that. If all you do is tell him "no it's okay you don't have to!" then he never will. This site is not about letting people stay pigeonholed so you don't hurt their feelings. This site is about improving.

This site's policy has always been, if you don't want C+C, then why are you posting? It's a waste of everyone's time. Why are we suddenly saying it's okay to ignore valid C+C?

First, I suggest you reread Koopaul's post.

Second, we're not saying he shouldn't move on. We're saying that it's not right to force him to move on. There's a difference between suggesting and demanding. And, excuse me, but "a waste of everyone's time"?! Seriously?! Besides, I'm pretty sure he wanted C+C on his Fire Emblem sprites, not to know whether or not he should move on. That decision lies with him in the end.

Third, this spat has pretty much ruined the topic. I think Nayr should be allowed to create a new one.

[Garamonde]

No, what should be done is to leave it be, and see what Nayr wants to do. If he's willing to move on, then these posts can be split from the thread and we can continue on like normal. Fighting about it is pointless now.

[Mutsukki]

I'm sorry, I don't know all about TSR policy and all that, since I'm pretty new myself, but, um...like, why would you post your stuff on a forum like TSR in the first place? To showcase your stuff and be praised? Or to...like...improve?

dA is out there to showcase stuff, so are other Fire Emblem-specific forums. I think it's just kinda bad that you come here to showcase edits (I don't see how splices are different) and ignore legit critique. And even so, when actual critique to the sprites were given, it was kinda just pushed to the side because "that's the original style, I didn't change anything".

So yeah, I'm kinda trying to see the point here. It's cool to show the forum stuff you made and all that, but customs were always enforced, you can make your 100th Mario & Luigi style character, but would you post them here everytime just to show? If you don't really want to be a pixel artist and improve, I don't see the point of showing it to this forum, sincerely.

EDIT: ninja'd by jetters :C I just wanted to give my 2 cents to this all

[RokuGurin]

I think people are misunderstanding. When you post sprites and then get the response of, "Can you do something else?" that's not really critique.

As I said, Nayr simply wants C+C on his Fire Emblem sprites, so why can't we give him that? Because he doesn't want to change like we want him to? Like Previous stated, "you're free to elaborate with arguments as to why someone should or should not do a thing and if the OP does not accept it, leave the thread alone."

Look. We can say he's ready, but if he doesn't feel ready to change, then we can't do anything about it. All we can do for now is help him improve his work. Then when he thinks he is ready to move on, he'll do so.

I really hate how people are implying that this is a waste of time just because he doesn't want to change his style yet.

[StarSock64]

When you post sprites and then get the response of, "Can you do something else?" that's not really critique.

Um, yes it is. Thinking critically, about his art skills, they are lacking, because he is not diversifying. That is legitimate critique.

We are not forcing him to do anything. He chose to post here, on a site dedicated to giving art C+C. If he does not want legitimate, honest C+C then he should just not post his works here. That was his choice.

[RokuGurin]

When you post sprites and then get the response of, "Can you do something else?" that's not really critique.

Um, yes it is. Thinking critically, about his art skills, they are lacking, because he is not diversifying. That is legitimate critique.

That says nothing about the reason he posted: to present his Fire Emblem sprites. Just because he doesn't want to expand his reach just yet doesn't mean his art skills are lacking.

We are not forcing him to do anything. He chose to post here, on a site dedicated to giving art C+C. If he does not want legitimate, honest C+C then he should just not post his works here. That was his choice.

Well you guys seem to be giving him hell about him not wanting to change his style. "Do something else" isn't critique; it's a demand. Now actual critique would be: "Not bad. Try this and that. Maybe change this and that. And perhaps you might consider trying a different style sometime. Your Fire Emblem style is pretty good and I think you can do an even better job with others."

And haven't you considered that maybe Nayr is having fun with the FE style? Maybe that's why he doesn't want to switch styles yet?

[Vipershark]

My issue here is that what Nayr is doing is literally edits and maybe some custom parts but overall edits.

This is NO different from someone doing sonic or megaman or mario edits which are obviously frowned upon here. The only difference is that this is bigger and looks a bit nicer due to the style.

So why is this considered acceptable while all the hundreds of other edits aren't?
What makes this okay?

Remember when all Iceman ever did was Mario and everyone jumped on him about it?
What's the difference? What makes Mario not okay but this okay? Where is the boundary drawn?

[Crappy Blue Luigi]

Well you guys seem to be giving him hell about him not wanting to change his style. "Do something else" isn't critique; it's a demand. Now actual critique would be: "Not bad

i stopped reading here.

critique does not entail complements. this is something that comes up often, where people think that criticism needs to include more "helpful" phrases like "good job," "nice work," or "not bad." nobody needs to pepper their criticisms with things like this because it doesn't say anything critically about the work in question, and thus is pointless praise that never helps someone improve their work.

i get where you're coming from, but you're really in the wrong here. meta never "demanded" that nayr try new styles; he asked if nayr does anything other than this one specific style. the important thing is to realize that people come to tSR to improve as (pixel) artists and expand their abilities; by sticking with only one style, nayr is limiting himself creatively. if that's what he wants to do, then cool! take it somewhere else.

i'm curious; why are you being so defensive on behalf of nayr? do you feel like he needs to be defended from our harsh critique?

[Vipershark]

I'm conflicted here. I don't think it's good for him to edit but it's not right to just turn him away for it.
I mean, I don't really want him to only do FE because buttpat showcasing obviously isn't what we want but we can't just exile him over some FE sprites.

So what's the compromise here?

[adman32]

I want to contribute to this discussion but I thought I would use a simple webcomic to express my views rather than words:

[Vipershark]

please don't, that contributed nothing

[Koopaul]

the important thing is to realize that people come to tSR to improve as (pixel) artists and expand their abilities;

I think we need to make a new topic now.

Because that right there annoyed me. When did this happen and how? When did tSR become a place to just become better artist and not some place to do all sorts of pixel related stuff?

In case you forgot there are people who rip here... there are people make customs for the site (very rare something I'd like to see more of)... and there are people who like to work together and make something.

[adman32]

Ok i'm sorry, I won't do it again.

[Crappy Blue Luigi]

the important thing is to realize that people come to tSR to improve as (pixel) artists and expand their abilities;

I think we need to make a new topic now.

Because that right there annoyed me. When did this happen and how? When did tSR become a place to just become better artist and not some place to do all sorts of pixel related stuff?

In case you forgot there are people who rip here... there are people make customs for the site (very rare something I'd like to see more of)... and there are people who like to work together and make something.

by tSR i meant the Spriting and Pixel Art forum.