C+C And Style Discussion (Split from Nayr's Thread)

[Gors]

@Koopaul, because that would be obnoxious as fuck and as I said before, just because it's 'useless' in a game or something, it doesn't mean it's meaningless. Or else we wouldn't have any art ever. Why bothering painting Mona Lisa or sculpting David? They don't serve for anything.
The point of making big pixelart, again, is not for use. Its purpose is different than what you want. Its purpose is to represent what the person wants to do, or what he's feeling, or to try out new techniques.

This is my more artistic-oriented point of view and I get what you're saying, but you need to stop thinking it's a waste because that idea not only is wrong, but also demotivating.

---

not to say I'd rather work on something entirely new than making customs of already existing characters.

[Chris2Balls [:B]]

Excuse my pedantry but both Mona Lisa and David had reasons to exist, that may not be as relevant today as they were then, but just as valid as creating sprites for a game now.

[Gors]

Not the best example, I agree, so thanks for the heads up. What I meant to say is that making such art does not serve of any practical purpose; I hope I made that clear in that post, if not I'll try explaining it here.

My thought on this is that usually, that kind of art doesn't have as many uses as game sprites. But, that doesn't invalidate it or worth less than them, which Koopaul is implying. They all have their own value and purposes, as I said.

[Garamonde]

Yeah I currently don't sprite for any purpose other than to improve, express myself, make things I've always wanted to make, and because it's fun. I really don't see why spriting should have a specific purpose if you don't intend it to be. The way I see it: it's a very enjoyable experience and that's pretty much that.

[SKELTON S. SKELETON]

Well you guys seem to be giving him hell about him not wanting to change his style. "Do something else" isn't critique; it's a demand. Now actual critique would be: "Not bad

i stopped reading here.

critique does not entail complements. this is something that comes up often, where

whoah whats up, somebody said something about critique not being compliments and i was literally summoned. my browser actually opened itself right to this thread. i'm really upset at you guys interrupting my videogame

I want to contribute to this discussion but I thought I would use a simple webcomic to express my views rather than words:

I wish you didn't.

the important thing is to realize that people come to tSR to improve as (pixel) artists and expand their abilities;

I think we need to make a new topic now.

Because that right there annoyed me. When did this happen and how? When did tSR become a place to just become better artist and not some place to do all sorts of pixel related stuff?

In case you forgot there are people who rip here... there are people make customs for the site (very rare something I'd like to see more of)... and there are people who like to work together and make something.

the thing about this that doesn't matter is that criticism is criticism. you have no control over the type of criticism people will post when you show them a piece of art. tsr is a nice place in attitude; but we should get over this foolish idea that you have to be "nice" to give criticism.
it is the artist job, not the job of the person critiquing, to determine which bits of criticism are going to be helpful to them in the long rung. irrespective of what is posted, doesn't matter if it's an edit, a custom in a style, criticism in this board should be deserved, and demanded of every single artist. i have given gorsal criticism; i said things that were likely not nice but he was a man about it, he didn't ask a friend to rally to his side and defend him because fuck you it's my style. i've done the same thing for crappy blue luigi, much as chris2balls and neorice have done for me and countless other artists.
you see, the thing about art as a creative medium, is if you continue making the same thing over and over again the creativity will eventually die and you will look to either become better at your expression, which falls in line with getting outside of your comfort zone so you can improve. either that, or you do like countless artists that have come through tsr through the years and give up your craft because you're just not up to it.
why is the discussion even getting this long; some of the best artists here have already made points that go well and above what people defending nayr have to say.

[Chris2Balls [:B]]

Not the best example, I agree, so thanks for the heads up. What I meant to say is that making such art does not serve of any practical purpose; I hope I made that clear in that post, if not I'll try explaining it here.

My thought on this is that usually, that kind of art doesn't have as many uses as game sprites. But, that doesn't invalidate it or worth less than them, which Koopaul is implying. They all have their own value and purposes, as I said.

Well... I'm tempted to say that game sprites have one use, and that's to illustrate a game's various parts. It's very specific. Just like Mona Lisa and David are very specific to their context, because they are commissions.

[megaMasquerain]

Okay I read through the last two pages of this thread, I'm gonna come in and give my opinion:

I... actually don't have any concrete reason to sprite. I'm usually not making any games, or comics, or taking any commissions, and I've pretty much given up on art as anything more than a hobby. I have difficulty seeing a picture as a 'picture' and not as just a detached group of objects, and I'm not sure if this is a behavior I could get over that would vastly improve my art or if it's something that's just part of the asperger's diagnosis and I'll never un-learn it.

In any case, I make art because it's fun for me. I like expressing the ideas in my head, showing people "hey, this is the Pokemon I thought up the other day". I find the process of pixel and sometimes even digital art soothing, there's something almost therapeutic about pixel-pushing and seeing the finished product is always fun. It's great to look at something and say "I made this".

I used to post only to show off; I was really reluctant to criticism. I would get angry at even the nicest, most constructive critique of my work. And tell you the truth, sometimes I still do, but it usually only happens when the person critiquing says shit like "the shading seems OFF" but doesn't tell me why. But I try to listen to what people say and take it to heart, even if I'm tired of looking at one sprite I'll try to attempt something else that fixes the previous sprite's problems.

I post on forums like TSR because I like showing people my work, and I like my art to be the best stuff I can make at that point in time. I post WIPs because I like them to be my best work when they're done. I post "finished" things because sometimes I don't think they measure up to my own standards. I like to look at a finished piece and be proud of myself because I did everything in my power to make something that meets or even exceeds my own expectations of my skill level.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that not everyone is a super serious artist, not everyone is here to "improve their craft". But that doesn't give them an excuse to flip out if they're being criticized. If they want their art to be fawned over and nothing else they should go to deviantArt or Youtube or something. TSR's sprite forum is a place that's for criticism, and anyone who goes to even one or two topics here should realize that.

Everyone has their own reason to post here. We shouldn't turn away anyone that seeks criticism, but we should make it crystal-clear that if you post here you are going to get c+c whether you like it or not.

(an aside: I notice a lot of criticism given to new members is a LOT more nasty than that given to regulars. I know harsh concrit is a hallmark of our forums, but we should be equally mean to everyone, right? )

[NICKtendo DS]

Well, to be honest, I too post sprites to show off a good deal of the time. However, though sometimes not intended for C+C, the C+C that I get, I absorb. It's not like feedback is given to a wall.
Showing off can be a goal to motivate*. Critique, how soul crushing it may be, is only good and an added bonus.
As long as you can prove you are improving, or experimenting, showing off on the boards is more than just showcasing as it can help you as an artist in more than 1 way.

My philosophy is: "Reach for the stars, how far they may be. As long as you try, you'll get closer. If you don't, stardom wil be always as far away as the stars don't come to you."
Along those lines, that is usually what I tell the rookies with potential who tend to pidgeon-hole. The hardest part for starters is probably that they have to accept the fact that it could take years to achieve a professional level of spriting. It took me a small decade to be where I am.

*Rushing a sprite (investing 10 sec-5 min) just so you can show it off: You're doing it wrong.