What was Nintendo's golden decade?

[Marth]

Nintendo never actually had a golden age in my opinion. They just put out some really memorable and innovative games from time to time. Most memorable games on a Nintendo console weren't even "Nintendo games", example; Banjo-Kazooie and Golden Eye.

Second you can't base "timeless" on childhood nostalgia. Games like Golden eye do have their place in my childhood but are still played by myself personally due to the actual game play. If I only played games I loved as a child I would still be playing garbage like the Fisher Price NES game. There is nothing there to draw me back at 19 years old other than to laugh at what entertained me when I was 3 at my grandfather's house.

Games that are timeless based on quality not the "warm and fuzzy" memories they give you, Dark Souls is a game that I find timeless, it doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling it fills me with frustration and satisfaction, it's something of quality. Where something along the lines of the "Modern Warfare" series isn't classic in the slightest.

Saying games are classic based off of nostalgia is like saying the "Biscuit the Dog" books are classic while something by Shakespeare isn't. Shakespeare is quality, "Biscuit" is just a warm and fuzzy childhood experience.

(I realize this may not be the most convincing argument, but I assume you'll get the general idea of where I'm going with this)

[Helmo]

Im not sure im even interested in modern games

older games have so much more creativity and soul in them

oh okay, you're one of those, great.

Implying his opinion is based solely on nostalgia, lol

your opinion is based solely on nostalgia. "creativity and soul" are timeless, never to be bound to a particular "GEN". saying otherwise is basing yourself purely in your childhood experience when you were basically, a way more naive kid with way less games under your belt.

however, problem arises when the developer doesnt even try to innovate or explore new characters, mainly because they sell games purely based on the title they bear(IE, kirby epic yarn).

actually none of the retro games im playing right now were played by me during my childhood and have no nostalgia value

they're just really fucking fantastic games

[Iceman404]

Im not sure im even interested in modern games

older games have so much more creativity and soul in them

oh okay, you're one of those, great.

Implying his opinion is based solely on nostalgia, lol

your opinion is based solely on nostalgia. "creativity and soul" are timeless, never to be bound to a particular "GEN". saying otherwise is basing yourself purely in your childhood experience when you were basically, a way more naive kid with way less games under your belt.

I literally have no nostalgic connection to any of these games, and my post shows I have other reasons for preferring older titles. I like to base games on what they offer rather than how I remember the old ones.

I think I proved enough that I'm not full of shit when it comes to older games the day I dissected SMK. People may not agree with me but at least I have actual reasons rather than rose tinted glasses.

[Mutsukki]

Well, sometimes you're not actually bound by your nostalgia, but by other people's. The same way that kids nowadays say that everything music wise from this decade and shit and that whatever was in the past they never experienced was the greatest thing ever (just an example, I do not mean to argue about music quality on this thread). Sometimes just because it's "old" people think it's automatically better. "It's uncorrupted by current design ideas", "this is it in it's purest form", "modern games lack soul, they're all from the same cookie cutter", etc, are what most of these people think. I personally think that's pretty silly, it creates a strong barrier to enjoy newer products, that are (at least supposed) to be improved by mistakes made in the past. I'm not saying that "newer = better" either, because it surely isn't, just that this way of thinking is pretty bad.

By the way, what Meta said was right, a lot of the "soul" and "magic" comes from childhood memories. Playing Pokémon (Red and Blue) as an adult is way less magical than playing it as a child, because at that time it was a huge world and I had nothing better to do. I do believe that kids nowadays can feel that way about Black and White. Of course, I'm not saying there aren't souless games, like New Super Mario Bros 2, which are gameplay in it's purest form with no regard to immersion or style, those really need to be fixed, even if they probably are still magical to children like Super Mario World was to us.

[Cobalt Blue]

exactly. you've got to remember that nintendo does have its share of crap with its name on it as well. wich kinda shows that, as a company, they're more of an opportunist, rather than anything else.

[Kriven]

Whole argument falls apart when you realize that anytime anyone mentions liking an old game they get bombarded with "fucking nostalgia" remarks.

I'm all for Generation Equality and Actual Artistic Merit, but a large percentage of the users on this board are way too quick to pull out swords and start shouting "nostalgia" when there's a pretty good chance that isn't the case at all.

andjsyk: Epic Yarn was the worst game to use as an example because it's actually really awesome and creative and one of the good games of this past generation.

[Mutsukki]

I actually interpeted what Meta said about Epic Yarn wrong until I read his comment again.

It was supposed to be a completely new IP, they just slapped Kirby on it because Kirby is cute and sells (don't get me wrong, I freaking love Kirby). So yeah, they're not taking any chances on IPs for a LOOOONG time

[Koopaul]

You got to remember how Nintendo designs games. Characters and IPs is one of the LAST things they think about when designing new games. When it comes to characters they don't really give a shit. To them, IP is merely the paint over an original idea. Miyamoto himself admitted that developers come up with new gameplay ideas and then later decide if they want to implement a certain franchise around it or make a new one entirely.

When they make games they usually start off as tech demos or experiments. Pikmin actually started out as tech demo featuring 128 Marios! It was later they decide to use this idea to make a new franchise.

Pokemon Snap actually started out as a game called "Jack and the Beanstalk" but they decide to change it to Pokemon because that was huge at the time. Nintendo has been doing this forever!
Even Super Mario Kart was going to be original characters too until they decided to stick Mario characters there. This is nothing new.

As for Mario series, I always believe each console has only one TRUE new Mario game that progresses the series. See these "New" Super Mario games are not a part of the next-in-line Mario games.

It was:

1. Super Mario Bros. / Super Mario Bros. 2
2. Super Mario Bros. 3
3. Super Mario World
4. Super Mario 64
5. Super Mario Sunshine
6. Super Mario Galaxy / Super Mario Galaxy 2
7. (Mario for the Wii U)

We have yet to see the truly new Mario game for the Wii U, but Yoshiaki Koizumi says it is coming. The REAL Mario game for the Wii U will amaze you, trust me.

Sometimes I feel you guys wouldn't be so critical if they didn't make all these NSMB games.

[Mutsukki]

I'm pretty sure everyone would. Besides what you think, they're still making New Super Mario Bros and making tons of money with it, which can hinder other game's design philosphy, which will make everything kinda suck.

Anyway, Nintendo can keep using popular characters for new games as long as they, well...create new freaking IPs. Everybody loves that one character that will make this game sells thousands. Sure, but why do that when you can, y'know, create something else? This comes from a part of them that is afraid take chances and that's what people have been saying about it becoming generic and dull.

btw I know Nintendo's and Miyamoto's game design philosophy and I look up to them, I think they're great, but not on everything. Sometimes they're just really bad/old philosophies that don't work anymore. They're not making NES games anymore, we progressed to more than that.

[Chaoxys]

So yeah, they're not taking any chances on IPs for a LOOOONG time

Pushmo
Dillon's Rolling Western
Fluidity (I think?)
Freakyforms
Sakura Samurai: Art of the Sword

It'd be nice if they made full fledged games that they felt confident in selling some of their new ideas in stores, but they are making new IPs.

[Woppet*]

1. Super Mario Bros. / Super Mario Bros. 2
2. Super Mario Bros. 3

But these are all on the NES.
Thought you said there was only one revolutionary title per console?

[Kriven]

Actually, Koopaul mentioned something interesting here:

To them, IP is merely the paint over an original idea.

And this was largely true, and largely beautiful. Luigi's Mansion, Super Mario Kart, Pikmin, everything was great when it was done like this. When it was done as a game first and a franchise second.

What we're seeing now is a reversal of that. Nintendo actively pursue a new Super Mario Bros. game, and now they're churning out shit.

It isn't about new IPs at all. It's actually got shit to do with which IP they use. It's creating games to fit the IP instead of twisting the IP to fit the game that's made the past generation and what can be seen of the next one so mind-numbingly boring.

[NICKtendo DS]

We have yet to see the truly new Mario game for the Wii U, but Yoshiaki Koizumi says it is coming. The REAL Mario game for the Wii U will amaze you, trust me.

New Super Mario Bros. U already amazes me, though compared to NSMB2's mediocrity, it's not hard to pull off. I see a lot of replay value in U; Challenge Mode is something brand new to the series and Boost Rush is an improved Coin Rush, Coin Rush being close to useless when the 9.999.999 coins milestone is achieved, part due to a terrible highscore system.
Nabbit is a huge step forward from saving Toads in Wii, which is a total waste of time knowing Green Toad Houses exist. Heck, even the story is different for a change.
NSMBU may not be spectacular, but it amazes, especially compared to the earlier NSMB titles.

[Mutsukki]

So yeah, they're not taking any chances on IPs for a LOOOONG time

Pushmo
Dillon's Rolling Western
Fluidity (I think?)
Freakyforms
Sakura Samurai: Art of the Sword

It'd be nice if they made full fledged games that they felt confident in selling some of their new ideas in stores, but they are making new IPs.

I can't consider these small eShop games at all, really. This is pretty much what I said about not taking any chance at all. This is totally playing it safe. They're not bad games, but they're also not really memorable. They feel like nice small fun minigames, rather than games. Well, maybe Sakura Samurai and Dillon's do look like more complete games, but still, nobody gave a shit about Sakura Samurai at all. Even Harmoknight which was just out in Japan (and I want it so bad) I can't consider new IP.

We need the next Pikmin. Since Pikmin, all new IPs were Nintendogs and Miis, that's not very creative is it? While Kriven has a point, if they were focusing on creating new interesting games in the first place (new IPs!!!! I hate throwing this word around, but really) and not re-using old characters, we would have more interesting things.

Again, I love Nintendo. I loved Skyward Sword, which is kinda bad in a lot of ways. I loved Galaxy 2, NSMBWii, whatever (just not NSMB2, my patience has a limit) and I still think they make good games (new Kirby, new Pokemon, etc etc). I just wish they worked better with their already appraised franchises (Mario, Zelda, F-Zero, Star Fox, etc. Pikmin 3 is actually a huge step from the Wii) and just, y'know, tried new things. That's all.

[Marth]

I will honestly say Galaxy 2 is the best Mario Game in a very long time. It had a lot of content from the old games but presented it in a manner that was new, inviting and well developed.

It felt like a Mario Game. Galaxy 1 really felt like a rough sketch of a game. While it did have some weaknesses the overall game was well done, it gradually grew more difficult as you progressed. While Mario in space is a fun concept, I hope they don't keep beating the horse now, it's still alive it's still fresh don't kill it like you did NSMB.