Mother 3's story is overrated.

[Helmo]

btw guys rafiki is baboon witch doctor

the colors are make up

look at his tail it's way too long to be a mandrill

[Gaia]

Spoiler

Nah my biggest gripe is the Egg thing. I hate the idea of keeping people ignorant will protect them. Ignorance will cause great disasters, not prevent them.

It's like a wise baboon* once said to a lion: "The past can hurt. But the way I see it, you can either run from it... or learn from it."

Mandrill*

Spark Rafiki? Makes me wonder about the blue butt then, but that's another story.

Also in the original Mother game there was this Ku Klux Klan knockoffs that only wanted to paint the town blue.. or something, I forget.

[Mutsukki]

That's not the original, it's the second one that has Happy Happyism. Mother 2 a.k.a Earthbound

[Crappy Blue Luigi]

The freaking scene even has it's own music composed just for it.

by "composed," you mean "covered"

erik satie's gymnopedie no. 1

leder's gymnopedie

it's really a beautiful song, and an excellent choice for the scene.

[Koopaul]

Now, to the Eagleland thing. The way you say it, it seems like Itoi is some American culture maniac, which is a way to completely miss the point. Of course he does enjoy American culture, otherwise it wouldn't be there in such a lighthearted manner. But, calling it a celebration is too much. That makes Itoi sound like some guy who just loves american culture and want to bring it to his own country, praising it as the best. Itoi always make sure to put japanese culture and things in his games, even if they're based on a satire version of America.

I never said any of those things. I was just saying that the guy likes American culture rather than think its "ridiculous" like other peole here have said.

I never meant "celebration" to mean what you said. I meant lots and lots of tributes to pop culture.

As for Leder's message, I'll write more on that later. Right now I got to get ready to go out.

[Kriven]

Wait a minute... you didn't mean celebration to mean what it means?

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'
'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

[Helmo]

most of the music is inspired by some other track

[Koopaul]

Wait a minute... you didn't mean celebration to mean what it means?

I don't think celebration means:

But, calling it a celebration is too much. That makes Itoi sound like some guy who just loves american culture and want to bring it to his own country, praising it as the best.

I looked up the definition. And there are quite few meanings. Mine was "to honor" which is exactly what he's doing in a humorous way.

How does "celebration" mean that he believes American culture is the best and everyone should follow it? I never implied that.

------------

Anyway, I'm finally going to go into further detial about the Hummingbird Egg and what Leder said. Here's the exact words he told Lucas, with my comments inserted into them.

Those who came aboard The White Ship feared another "End of the World" more than anything else. They felt that the world's destruction was a direct result of the way they had lived. (Really? The way they lived? That seems like a stretch but okay.) The people of the White Ship discussed things at great length. They shared their wisdom and spoke with great seriousness. And then they arrived at their conclusion. They decided to completely erase everyone's memories of the previous "world" and start their lives over with new rules and new roles. Yes. In short, everyone would play out the ideal "story" that they had come up with. (So everyone is living a happy lie than face the truth?) That is what happened. The people would restart their lives in a simple peaceful village, the kind of place they wished they had grown up in. They would erase their memory of everything: the world, their belongings, their rules...
...and then they would begin their new lives. (Why can't they live their new lives AND have their memories? Then they'll always remember why they chose to live this way.) Everyone's old memories would be reset and replaces with their newly-created "story". ANd this the village of Tazmily came to be.

However, it was necessary to record the fact that the memory replacement had taken place. (Yes it is! Why not let everyone have that knowledge?) The Hummingbird Egg was the device used to store the memories of the White Ship people. Wess and his son Duster, both playing the roles of thieves, were set to take action should a dangerous situation occur. (why leave the responsibility to the few?)

Remember when they went to Osohe Castle? They went their to retrieve the secret of the "People of the White Ship".

And there's one other thing. Me. It was essential that one person retain memory of the previous world. (why only one?) to keep watch over things. I was the only one in the Tazmily Village who wasn't given a role in the new "story". The sound of my bell seved as a "suggestion", to keep everyone's fabricated memories from reverting. (Again, Why?) My name "Leder" comes from the word "Leader". No, no, that doesn't mean I was anyone special. It was just that I was particularly taller than all others. So, upon discussion, I was selected because it would be easier for me to stand out. Being tall people would come to see me, you know? And so I was given the the role of revealing these secrets when the time truly called for it. (that is the most foolish thing I've heard!)

Like I said before, those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it! There's a great example in the actual game of just this!

Remember the Happy Boxes? If people remembered the past, they would have never fallen for Fassad's tricks. They would have never become obsessed with the Happy Boxes. It's all because they were naive to the wisdom that tragedy should have taught them.

Imagine if we never learned about Nazi Germany? If we chose to forget that horrible thing ever happened. We HAVE to know! We all have to know. So we can learn and grow and survive.

Keeping humanity in a chidlike state would never be helpful for them. EVentually every child needs to know their isn't a Santa Claus. Eventually every child should be taught at school of the world's end.

Everyone in the game would be wiser and forsee the danger coming, I feel so many of these problems in the game would have been solved if everyone knew the truth ahead of time.



This all comes down to me over thinking things. Do you know I disliked Harry Potter because the Wizards chose to keep the dangers that the Muggles were in a secret from them? Don't they deserve to know? They aren't stupid babies! Maybe they could help?

[Marth]

Because muggles in tanks against wizards would just make an already ridiculous series more absurd?

Also comparing Nazi Germany to this is just augh.

Koopaul I get where you're coming from..sort of, but who says mankind is doomed to repeat its history if they don't know of it? Wouldn't knowing also serve the purpose of fueling a bigger more catastrophic series of events? They could in turn use prior villains' plans for a springboard to create something bigger and far more destructive, or horrendous. I mean I don't think it is within our human nature to randomly go out and start mass genocides without an already tainted mindset.

[Saltonara]

Everyone in the game would be wiser and forsee the danger coming, I feel so many of these problems in the game would have been solved if everyone knew the truth ahead of time.

If that had happened then there wouldn't have been a game. If anything the point of the story could be to make people realize that you shouldn't just ignore the past, because as you said, look at what happened to the people of Tazmilly. I don't see how showing the possible (not that anything like this would happen for real relatively soon) dangers of being completely ignorant makes for a bad story.

[Gors]

Koopaul, I think you are forgetting that the people in Tazmilly are humans. They decided to reset and start anew, seeing that the old world wasn't good to live in anymore. The thing is, by erasing their memories, it is not 'avoiding the truth' or 'being ignorant on purpose'. Humans exist to learn, and this new life would be another opportunity to improve. I see where you are coming from, if they knew about the bad things, they /could/ have led a life without problems, who knows. But by doing that, there would have no reason to live because we live to learn. And the faults and the growth of each character is what gives Tazmilly a more human feel.

The Egg was created as a sort of backup, for emergency. Few people were designated to do this because otherwise there would be a clusterfuck of people trying to get ahold of it; they had organized everything in order to avoid conflicts. It was all decided prior to the new life because of this.

Finally, Leder's explanation of being a 'Leader' might sound silly at first, but the fact that he was chosen to be the leader for no strong reason whatsoever reminds us he's a human like anyone else. He doesn't have anything better than the rest; he isn't more or less capable than the others. He was chosen as a volunteer, leading people without imposing power or anything over them.

So the choice might not be perfect, I understand, but those details are what give life to the pixels and dialogue you see.

[Mutsukki]

Leder's reason to be the leader just because he's tall is one of the writings many charms. Gors has nailed it on his post above.

You know, a lie is only a lie when there's a reference point to what is the "truth". If everyone lives the life they planned out for themselves, how is that a lie anymore? Their past may be a fabrication, sure, but the life they're living right now is most definately the truth.

Fassad's betrayal was never planned. The Magypsies didn't care much about humans, so they wouldn't really mess with them, but Porky's arrival disrupted that. If anything the history is supposed to repeat itself after all and that humankind strives for happiness. They were perfectly happy with their new made up lifes, that's reason enough to justify all their actions.

I feel like I've adressed all of your other points in my earlier post too, so I end this one here.

[Kitsu]

I feel that I should point out that, just because you disagree with a story's message, doesn't make it a bad story.

I don't know about Mother 3, as I haven't played it, but it sounds like it generally bears the features of a good story, with compelling characters and plot (even if it's in the typical brainfuck sort of way).
On top of that, some people say that a story's main purpose isn't necessarily so much as to CONVINCE you of its message, but just to get you thinking about it and come up with your own answer. If that is the case, I'd say this game's story has succeeded, as you're all thinking quite a lot about it, and it's had an impact on how you're spending your time, whether you end up agreeing or disagreeing with its conclusion.

[Ton]

ITT: Semantics. You can like something and lampoon it at the same time. The world is the way it is. that doesn't mean we have to like everything about it.

To say that Mother has an anti-consumerist message is missing the point. Yes, Porky is a symbol of western opulence and greed. The fast food restaurant is run by several copies of his mother. He is literally a product of cheap, unhealthy consumerism. He's the product of garbage. He secretly runs the facade of a city, nobody ever sees him, he pulls the strings behind the scenes, and uses people to get what he wants with no remorse. He's the villain who lusts for power, and having everything is not enough for him.

But the world he has built for himself isn't real. It's literally made of cut-outs. It's a construction. And what is his fate? Gleefully spending eternity in a bubble of his own design. Porky is an extreme. He doesn't represent only consumerism, but pure greed. It's not Porky's consumerism that is shown to be the real evil in the game as much as it's the separation from earth (Our Mother).

Tazmily is a village that is large and expansive, but includes rivers, animals, plains, and, of course, sunflowers. The people respect nature and live with it. By contrast, New Pork City is fake, separate, and rises higher and higher. The creatures are no longer natural, but are being used for personal gain. The trees and forests are eventually replaced with steel girders and sheet metal. Hell, look at the logo! It's wood being overtaken by steel!
Porky represents forgetting where we come from. He has no respect for the world and only cares about himself. He loves nothing but himself (See: The Absolutely Safe Machine).

Itoi seems to say that this lifestyle, taken to its extreme is horrible. It dehumanizes us, poisons our world, destroys our wildlife, and makes us selfish. Mother is a story about moderation. The beetle enemies also run stores, but they're not consumerist monsters that hate everything. A Jazz band saves Duster's life and he joins them. They save your life later. But Yokuba is also literally "saved" by music when he is reconstructed. Leder's story about wiping everyone's memory is another extreme that is proven to be the wrong decision. At the end of the game this is corrected and the world survives, but they don't destroy everyone's memories. They've learned from extremism. There can be a happy medium.

This is further explored in the characters of Lucas and Claus. One is a mindless killing machine, the other is a boy who overcomes his weaknesses and becomes a hero. The fact that their names are anagrams is a reminder that we have the choice to be either one of these characters in life.

So don't say that it's anti-consumerist. The game itself IS a product. That's part of the joke. Mother 3 is a story about moderating the human need for growth and expansion and technology with the respect and conservation of Mother, the planet Earth. It's about balance.

[Koopaul]

The message is told in a strange way so a lot can be interpreted differently.

The story isn't bad. I never said that. The title of the topic is the story is overrated. People gush over how Mother 3's story is the greatest thing in the history of mankind. It bugs me because I know the story is far from perfect, yet everyone thinks it is.