I love you all to death (Just so I can smash bros with you) (SSBWiiU/3DS)

[Koopaul]

No, I mean:

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Rosalina
Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Trainer, Mewtwo, Lucario

Equal reps.

I said the same thing before and people thought I was crazy. Equal franchises get equal reps. Of course I was talking about F-Zero and Mother. I think they are equal.

[Ton]

No, I mean:

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Rosalina
Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Trainer, Mewtwo, Lucario

Equal reps.

I said the same thing before and people thought I was crazy. Equal franchises get equal reps. Of course I was talking about F-Zero and Mother. I think they are equal.

I don't think it applies to all franchises. Just Mario. Mario has got to have the most reps because it is THE Nintendo franchise. The Mushroom symbol now has 5 people attached to it, which gives the team some wiggle room when it comes to the bulky casts like Pokemon.

[Koopaul]

I don't see how it doesn't apply to all franchises. Why just the ones that have a lot of characters? Why not the one that have 1, 2, or 3?

I mean if you want to be fair Pokemon now that Mario has 5 guys, why can't we be fair to all the franchises? I mean fair depending on the status of the franchise. if a franchise is big enough, it should get a lot more characters, if a franchise is kind of small or forgotten, it should only get a few characters.

So franchise on the same level as each other get the same characters.

S Tier Franchise = 4-5 characters
Super Mario
Legend of Zelda
Pokemon

A Tier Franchise = 3-4 characters
Donkey Kong
Metroid
Kirby

B Tier Franchise = 2-3 characters
Star Fox
Fire Emblem

C Tier Franchise = 1-2 characters
Mother
F-Zero

D Tier Franchise = 1-AT character
Ice Climbers
Kid Icarus

However there are obvious exceptions to the rule if a franchise doesn't have many notable characters, or just one character would cover the series good enough on it's own than it doesn't matter how high of a tier it is, it will always just have one character.

[Kriven]

It should also depend on the integrity of the franchise. F-Zero characters just don't matter... they're not even shown during the races. Whereas, RPGs are based completely around the idea of powerful characters, and powerful characters deserve representation.

I mean, when you play F-Zero, it doesn't matter really who you pick. The car will look a little different and handle a little different, but they all have the same abilities. They all boost, they all recover health, they all move really fast. It isn't even like Mario Kart where the characters move and taunt and cheer during the race and sometimes have signature abilities.

I'm not saying that F-Zero characters have (f)zero personality, but that their personalities aren't even a secondary aspect of the game. Where the F-Zero franchise is concerned, characters themselves are pretty far down on the importance scale. This isn't true for a number of other franchises, and it's why F-Zero characters rank really low on anyone's radar.

[Koopaul]

Ugh this again. Since when did "powerful characterization" matter at all? Does Wii Fit Trainer have powerful characterization? No! Do the Pokemon have powerful characterization? Not at all. They are all blank slates. Pikachu is a cute mouse that shoots electricity.

Besides F-Zero characters do have a lot of personality and story to them. Hell, F-Zero characters have more personality than most Nintendo franchises! Just because that's not a part of the actual gameplay, does that make a difference? Especially in a game like Smash Brothers?

If you want to get to know their personalities go play F-Zero GX.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqvXZAyzb...88A6B26663

[Kriven]

I've played F-Zero GX, and I love a lot of F-Zero characters, but that doesn't make them any more significant to their own franchise, let alone the whole of Nintendo.

Pokemon is literally all about the characters. The entire concept is "Catch, raise, and train all the characters."

Wii Fit Trainer falls into the same category as Captain Falcon: "Well, we have this cool franchise. I guess we might as well represent it somehow."

[Crappy Blue Luigi]

powerful characterization comes into play when the character in question lacks a preconceived set of moves

pokemon always had minimal personality but they had tons and tons of notable abilities in their movepools so integrating them with the smash bros. concept was a snap, especially after pokemon stadium had already come out with clear 3d animations for the existing generation 1 moves

wii fit trainer's moves are all based on actual poses and exercises from the wii fit games--no characterization necessary, all the moves are there

but like you said, f-zero characters do have plenty of personality; however, captain falcon was one of the few to have any demonstrated abilities outside of the games, thanks to spinoff manga and comics

note: i haven't played any f-zero games long enough to really know the characters outside of captain falcon, my only point is that "powerful characterization" is kind of really important when the character in question doesn't have any notable abilities to use and derive from

[TomGuycott]

I don't think F-Zero characters have any problem being characterized or given movesets in Smash Bros. Different racers in the series do have different personalities, even racing styles, some of which are outwardly stated in Smash Bros trophies. However, there is a noticeable gap in popularity between F-Zero and a franchise like say... Zelda. HOWEVER However, like many Nintendo franchise over the years it is not FORGOTTEN by Nintendo. I'd relish the chance to play a new F-Zero character.

Also Koopaul, I love how your list includes Metroid as something deserving 3-4 characters (which I agree with), yet Brawl only let it get to 2 within 1.

[Kriven]

Don't you worry about Metroid...

[Jermungandr]

I wonder if the different colored lumas have different effects like Olimar's pikmin.

On a different note, I really hope they reveal another veteran before the year is out. Any guesses as to who it would be?

[TomGuycott]

I'm just speculating here on Luma, but it appears to me that the Luma's color MIGHT represent which player number it is currently targeting. Another possibility is that it represents its mode of attack or behavior. I think its still the same Luma though, just changing color to represent patterns. Also looks like it is summoned as a special move, so its not always there.

Actually, based on Sakurai's latest post it is DIFFERENT Lumas. Now I have no idea.

[Koopaul]

Metroid "deserves" to have more... but really it can't. Like my disclaimer at the bottom, some series, no matter how deserving, simply can't have a lot of characters. Metroid is a game that is usually isolated. Besides Samus, you never get to know anyone else, and if you do it's usually someone you meet for one game and they have a small role. The character that has had the biggest role in a Metroid game next to Samus is Ridley. So we'll have to see if he gets in this time.

[Omega]

I wonder if the different colored lumas have different effects like Olimar's pikmin.

On a different note, I really hope they reveal another veteran before the year is out. Any guesses as to who it would be?

Zelda probably, the 3DS game comes out in japan on the 26th

[Darky's Reincarnation]

man i always wanted ridley playable, i even thought back in the days because he was in the melee intro you could unlock him there.

out of all the ''dark'' characters nintendo has created, i think ridley is one - if not the most that is fucked up

he kills samus her mother in front of her, terrorizes samus throughout the whole series in all kinds of incarnations and isn't even her ''real'' enemy most of the times in the games. all that for no real reason

he mostly just appears out of nowhere giving her a sour time. he's also the whole reason why the events of the metroid games even take place. he sure is the second important metroid character, and if metroid should get a third character, it should be him.

as what personality goes; ridley's personality goes just as far as meta knight's does. they are both just there, being cool and all. but none have a good reason why (yet)

[Vitesse]

I kinda picked up on something recently from a video released way back.

Spoiler

This one, in case anyone cares.

At about two minutes in, Sakurai begins talking about Link, Samus and Pit, going into detail about Samus and Pit being redesigned to resemble their most recent appearances. However, he doesn't discuss Link's new design from Skyward Sword, nor does he show off any new moves (assuming he has any). Could it be that the new design for Link resembles his appearance in the upcoming unannounced Zelda game for the Wii U (not Dynasty Warriors) and Nintendo told Sakurai not to spoil anything?

Didn't Game Freak do something similar around October by telling Sakurai not to reveal anything new when Pokemon X/Y came out?