Do you think being nice is more important than talent?

[E-Man]

I see... My memory must be a little fuzzy then. Since I didn't watch any Disney shows a whole lot when Recess was still big, I can't say a whole lot about it.

Anyway, I don't know about that kid from the show, but in Ness' and Porky's case, I would say that turned out a whole lot better. Ness ended up becoming famous and respected for saving the world, while Porky Mitch (even though he ended up the ruler of the Nowhere Islands) ended up liking Ness if anything from the third game counted as solid evidence. By the way, if you still didn't care for Porky at that point, he ended up gettign what he deserved by...

Spoiler

Getting sealed away in a capsule with no means of escaping.

Since TJ has a lot of respect as it is (with the exception of Miss Finster and that one kid) and what I explained about Ness and Porky, I would say that TJ and Ness are pretty lucky.

[Mutsukki]

I'm going to be kinda harsh here, but even the nicest person doesn't have to like everyone, neither act kind if they don't feel like it. It may become some warped kind of kindess that's not from the heart. If some person doesn't like you... it's not because they're some terrible human being

...

This makes it sound like it's the other party's fault for not liking you. Maybe it is, but maybe it also isn't. It's not exactly a flaw to not like someone else, you know.

Reminds me of the episode of Recess where TJ learns that there's one person who doesn't like him and tries everything to change the guy's opinion.

I've learned a lot from cartoons.

( http://www.watchcartoononline.com/recess...t-like-t-j )

You wanna know what's weird? I was thinking of this exact episode while I wrote that. (And it actually comes up in my mind from time to time ahaha it's such a good message in a kids cartoon)

[Marth]

So let me get this straight, you're weighing the value of intrinsic personal qualities that subjectively define one as "nice" against a well developed and practiced skill to the extent that it's considered a "talent".

Son, you are comparing apples and oranges here. I don't think you even understand your own question.

[E-Man]

So? Most people want to be friends with someone just because they're talented. You could be talented, but on the inside, you're downright nasty. This idea has been try on countless web sites and I actually prefer being nice over being talented.

[Jermungandr]

So let me get this straight, you're weighing the value of intrinsic personal qualities that subjectively define one as "nice" against a well developed and practiced skill to the extent that it's considered a "talent".

Son, you are comparing apples and oranges here. I don't think you even understand your own question.

How is that? He's taking two quantifiable qualities of a person and asking which one has a greater influence on you when developing relationships with people. That does not sound like he's asking two completely unrelatable concepts to me.

[Marth]

That's not being someone's friend. That's using someone for your own personal gain and/or fame.

I don't get what you're getting at. I've met plenty of nice guys (who are also talented and good friends of mine) and even more "nice guys". The latter were egocentric, self-promoting jackasses. Protip; if one must actively and persistently say that they are a "nice guy", they generally aren't that "nice".

Edit: Whoops, it seems I was ninja posted. Drshnaps, I don't see where talent serves as a means for developing relationships(outside of professional ones). You may attract people because of admirable skills, but if you're an irritable person no one is going to stay around you for long. Unless they see something worthwhile in being your friend (either they can tolerate you and think a worthwhile friendship can be had or they want to sponge off of your "talent" and brag about knowing having you as a "friend" to meet other people (I saw this happen quite a few times at a studio I used to study at)). Whereas being nice isn't necessarily a foolproof way to make friends either, but it does make you more approachable so that ground level conversations may be shared that allow a friendship to form.

[Sengir]

If you're befriending someone for their talent you're probably worse that the talented person.

[Jermungandr]

Or just naive and immature. In my experience it tends to be the young or "noobish" people who tend to flock to those based on talent alone. They aren't necessarily bad people, they just have stars in their eyes.

Edit: Whoops, it seems I was ninja posted. Drshnaps, I don't see where talent serves as a means for developing relationships(outside of professional ones). You may attract people because of admirable skills, but if you're an irritable person no one is going to stay around you for long. Unless they see something worthwhile in being your friend (either they can tolerate you and think a worthwhile friendship can be had or they want to sponge off of your "talent" and brag about knowing having you as a "friend" to meet other people (I saw this happen quite a few times at a studio I used to study at)). Whereas being nice isn't necessarily a foolproof way to make friends either, but it does make you more approachable so that ground level conversations may be shared that allow a friendship to form.

I hope I'm not coming across as snobby (boy, I'm not making any friends today), but that statement is pretty much an answer to the question poised rather than invalidating it as a question. You are absolutely right by the way.

[E-Man]

I don't get what you're getting at. I've met plenty of nice guys (who are also talented and good friends of mine) and even more "nice guys". The latter were egocentric, self-promoting jackasses. Protip; if one must actively and persistently say that they are a "nice guy", they generally aren't that "nice".

Since you put it that way, some of the people who don't like me very much kept on saying how "nice" they are and thought they were doing a "favor" for me. It's starting to make sense to me now...

I just thought that they were actually being nice in a way I don't completely understand that makes me frustrated, but since you told me that tidbit, "Koopaul," I now know that something is really off. Thank you for giving me a means of identifying people who would likely act nasty for one reasons or another. It's not foolproof, but at least I found a pattern.

[Goemar]

In regards to sprite work/art I think the point you're getting to here is this: 'talented' people sometimes come across as more critical because they have seen 'your' (not actually you just figuratively speaking) crap MegaMan edit a 1000 times before. They've seen your terrible first sprite. And well, it sucks. You shouldn't have even posted it. And then they tell you to change it and you do such a crappy minor job it's just annoying. Then you finally agree to restart (even though the reason why baffles you) and it looks just as crap.

New people to any art form tend to be blinded by their 'own' success of making anything that criticism and actual help seems to confuse the crap out of them and then all the people who are good at the subject and try to help just get frustrated.

Remember, practise a lot before you post anything. Do our research. Learn about shading, line art, form and all that BEFORE you post.

(Please note: the 'you' in this post isn't you, it's just for example purposes work).

[Lemonray]

If you're befriending someone for their talent you're probably worse that the talented person.

This, a hundred times. The same goes for people who befriend others so they can take advantage of their victim's generous nature, only they're even worse.

[E-Man]

In regards to sprite work/art I think the point you're getting to here is this: 'talented' people sometimes come across as more critical because they have seen 'your' (not actually you just figuratively speaking) crap MegaMan edit a 1000 times before. They've seen your terrible first sprite. And well, it sucks. You shouldn't have even posted it. And then they tell you to change it and you do such a crappy minor job it's just annoying. Then you finally agree to restart (even though the reason why baffles you) and it looks just as crap.

New people to any art form tend to be blinded by their 'own' success of making anything that criticism and actual help seems to confuse the crap out of them and then all the people who are good at the subject and try to help just get frustrated.

Remember, practise a lot before you post anything. Do our research. Learn about shading, line art, form and all that BEFORE you post.

(Please note: the 'you' in this post isn't you, it's just for example purposes work).

Hm, I can see that happening. I won't talk about my own short comings related to that (mostly because they happened in the past and I don't want to talk about what I'm capable of in a topic like this), but I know several others who acted like that due to criticism. Take Plokman for example. The guy is very sweet, but he tends to get frustrated when you guys act "elitist" against him. I know you're trying to help him, but there are just some matters that you just can't sugar coat... Regardless, in addition to having new guys accept criticism a bit better, I would would also suggest the more established users to be a little more patent. I've known you have seen the same Sonic recolor one hundred times already, but what would people think if you snapped at that moment. Sure, the opinion of one "n00b" (for lack of a better word) might not matter too much, but if other people were around and the "n00b" tells others, then I fear that it'll lead to a sort of snowball effect you are better off avoiding. In short, I feel that self-improvement of this sort works both ways.

As for what I mean about why talent would be not as important as being nice, I was actually referring to how talented people are probably not nice on the inside. Sure, they pretend to be nice at first (much like "Koopaul" implied), and when they get a lot of admiration, they keep this mask on...... However, when someone starts to get into this guy's face for whatever reason (it doesn't matter if it's a justified reason or a pointless reason), then we see the true colors of this "nice" person. Even though I feel that being nice (as in genuinely nice) is more important than being talented when it comes to relationships, it almost seem like you can't have one without the other to form a solid friendship. In other words, you come for the talent, but stay for the pleasant chats.

[Goemar]

I have never formed any kind of relationship based on someone's talent.

Hell I thought tSR was pretty crap when I first laid eyes on it (sorted by company, poor quality checks) and I thought Dazz was way too young and a bit of a douche. By god I was wrong (Dazz is a huge douche! - joking). The point is Dazz was a nice guy. I didn't give a rat's ass about his fancy pants ripping techniques or programs to get sprites. I just liked the guy. I still think he's sometimes less vocal than he should be in order to keep the peace here from time to time, but sometimes you have to hold back hen you're the admin.

The kid did alright, as they say.

The late N-finity amazed my balls off back in the day. And yeah his work was cool, his quality was high and his efficiency was just out of this world. But I didn't look up to him for that. I looked up to him because when I had a question about something, he answered. And he was always happy to talk, be it what secrets lay within the Metroid Zero Mission ROM (which always led to an argument of Robot Ripley Vs Robot Ripley, Mother Brain and Kraid - would wind him up to no end), other worlds, dreams or whatever. He was very set in his ways (if he knew I was still using MS-Paint to organise my sprite sheets...) but he was a cool person.

In fact most people who I talk(/ed) to here I seriously have no idea if they are any good at art, sprites - or well whatever. They are just good people to talk to.

The main thing I enjoy about the 'talent' here is when someone starts of crap but they listen. They accept that their early work sucks. That it's not just a bunch of guys telling him it sucks but that it actually does suck and they work their arse off. They work and listen and accept themselves as a student instead of the master.

And then there's people who this site helps grow personally. I forget his name (his avatar was a Jawa like thing back then) but he got caught for stealing sprites. I said to ban him, for good. He turned shit around, and I think we both learnt from that.

So yeah, you can look up to someone for their work, you can be inspired by it - but to be friends because of it? That's just bogus.

[E-Man]

I can see why several people were pleased to have you back! What you said was actually beautiful and so true! Even though I like the talents some of the people I know have, I truly adore how they treat me! Besides, I'm sure everyone would agree that if you only like someone for their artwork, then you would feel very hollow on the inside.

Take A.J. Nitro for example. Even though I'm fond of the guy's spritework, I wouldn't care if he actually makes sprites. The real reason why I'm fond of him is due to my interactions with him. Not only is he a cool guy, but he is very understanding and patient. While I would like a few sprites, I would rather have a steady friendship than a bunch of little images any Tom, Dick, or Harry would slap into a sprite comic.

Also, I saw that you mentioned something about people changing. For me, that's really good! The "n00b" you would know today could end up being a wise sprite master tomorrow (I don't mean it literally, but you get what I mean). As a matter of fact, though, I'm glad that you were able to figure that out on your own, Goemar. If more people were like you, then the Internet would be a better place.

Anyway, if we could accept that people change for not only the worse, but also for the better, I feel that everything would be alright. In fact, if met me awhile back, you probably wouldn't think I was the same person back then.

[Mutsukki]

As for what I mean about why talent would be not as important as being nice, I was actually referring to how talented people are probably not nice on the inside.

What. That's an horrible generalization, what makes you be so sure of that? You should drop this act, seriously.

Sure, they pretend to be nice at first (much like "Koopaul" implied), and when they get a lot of admiration, they keep this mask on...... However, when someone starts to get into this guy's face for whatever reason (it doesn't matter if it's a justified reason or a pointless reason), then we see the true colors of this "nice" person.

What the actual fuck. I was trying to keep calm until now, but how the fuck it doesn't matter if it's justified or not? if someone get's in your face, you're gonna get angry. This ideal of "being nice to everyone ever" is really really bad and, if anything, fake.

Even though I feel that being nice (as in genuinely nice) is more important than being talented when it comes to relationships, it almost seem like you can't have one without the other to form a solid friendship. In other words, you come for the talent, but stay for the pleasant chats.

Can you truly not see what wrong with this sentece? They're not equivalents in any way. If anything, I think your way of thinking is what's wrong in this whole equation.

While I would like a few sprites, I would rather have a steady friendship than a bunch of little images any Tom, Dick, or Harry would slap into a sprite comic.

Jesus Christ, are you serious? You basically just admitted yourself to entering a relationship out of interest, but being "ok" with it because the person is nice to you.

The "n00b" you would know today could end up being a wise sprite master tomorrow

Not without proper guiding, he probably won't. That's why he's a "n00b".