TSR's Super Smash Bros Thread|SWITCH HYPE TRAIN NOW BOARDING

[Kriven]

SSB4 is already bordering too technical for me, it doesn't need to go anymore hardcore.

[MrYoshbert]

A more technical Smash? The Smash community has enough of those "serious business" players as it is; do we really want the devs to draw more of them in?!

Also, is there really that much Kid Icarus spam? 

Yeah, I have to question that too.

Kid Icarus has: three character slots, two assist trophies, a couple of enemies in Smash Run, two or so items, and one stage.  I think people are taking issue with it just because Sakurai worked on one game in the series and made it relevant again.

It's the same reason why back in 2008, people were pissed off because there were three Kirby characters in Brawl... despite the fact that Zelda and Star Fox also had three characters each.

[Iceman404]

You misunderstand. I mean technical in the Melee sense. A casual chaotic game at first glance that can have tricks and small-yet-greatly-benefitial timings of things to become technical in the long run, aka deepness in the base game engine. (Note, I am not talking about silly wave dashing). This lets it be enjoyed by any audience, and as exemplified by this great accident, could let the game possibly last for 13+ years as an active game rather than looking at it nostalgically every decade or so.

Also yeah there is just a lot of Kid Icarus content for a series that was abandoned for two decades and only has 2 or 3 games. I have a small problem when Mario gets about 9 reps, Pokemon eats an entire layer of the roster, Mother gets a series rep revoked, Starfox gets a series rep revoked, F-Zero gets nothing despite being a veteran series in smash, Samus gets another character being herself (as fun and unique as she is to play, she could have maybe gotten someone else after Brawl rather than nothing), and we all know about Donkey Kong... I'd rather not go into detail at the moment. (And suddenly as I post this, there's more people above me)

[Gwen]

Kid Icarus is extremely popular again, why shouldn't it get more reps? I'll give you that Dark Pit is the dumbest fucking thing ever, but that's the only thing I don't like from the Kid Icarus camp.

[Iceman404]

It comes off as Kid Icarus spam to me because there are more deserving series who could use the characters and overall cameos everywhere, this one is still too "fresh" to me after its sudden revival. I feel that some underdeveloped veterans needed more before we could break the Pits in.

In any case, back to Sakurai and his always-self-contradicting statements! I'd rather the thread not become about this. Mentioning competitive Smash Bros here puts everyone in an odd mood.

[Pik]

Samus gets another character being herself (as fun and unique as she is to play, she could have maybe gotten someone else after Brawl rather than nothing)

I never really saw this as a bad thing, ZSS does count as her own character and playstyle, even if it's Samus without the suit. It's still new Metroid representation, right?

[Iceman404]

Of course it is! That's why I mentioned that!

[recme]

wow, did everybody forget that clone characters are just options? meaning that dark pit is just pit with different attributes, which completely changes the playstyle of the character. plus, effort on clone characters is substantially lower than a newcomer, so including clones isnt that big of a deal.

[Iceman404]

Most people know that, I think.

Overall I feel like it would have been less of a slap in the face if Lucina and Dark Pit were costumes instead, then there would be no complains about them, but rather serious PRAISE! Doctor Mario is a bit too unique, I feel. Compared to Lucina and Dark Pit, he feels like his own character just because of how extremely changed his properties are. Not that I couldn't live without it. He would've been a cool Mario alt regardless.

[Pik]

They were originally costumes though, now they're just simply different spots on the roster. What's the problem?

[Kriven]

I'd mind Dark Pit less if he used Pit's Brawl moveset. Lucina doesn't feel like Marth at all, as someone who doesn't intimately understand their nuances. Lucina seems easier for me to use.

[E-Man]

They were originally costumes though, now they're just simply different spots on the roster. What's the problem?

The problem is that there's this misconception that more clones means less roster space.

[Iceman404]

@Pik: I think that might be everyone's exact problem, its like a respect thing. They're actually treated as their own separate characters when people feel they don't deserve those spots at all, whereas they'd not be complained against had they been alts.

Its like if I threw Young Pink Gold Metal Doctor Dark Baby Toon Peach Jr. in and then made all her attacks do 5% less for a bit more running speed. Sure its extra content technically speaking, but its really just unnecessary recolor bloat that apparently makes people mad as another side effect.

Its a hype ruiner and really shows. Unlocking a blatant clone is the most unexciting thing, the entire idea of clones is relatively unexciting and questionable when the devs could use their time better.

[Kriven]

I love clones. Give me a page full of clones, even if they're unbalanced. Peppy as a slow Falco clone who can jump ridiculously high, Pachirisu as a faster Pikachu, all the Pikmin Captains with different Pikmin types and orders...

[Iceman404]

May I also mention that its also somewhat of a kick in the shins when Ice Climbers, Wolf, Lucas, and Snake all got cut on the same game we got three uninspired clones in. The time it took to contract voice actors, do the modelling, and planning for the cloned could have been used to either

A.) Make Ganondorf Ganondorf, for example

Or

B.) Put at least two the removed Brawl characters back in, because reimplementing their Brawl data and giving them high poly models should take about just a bit more effort than it takes to make a clone. The voices are there, the animations are there, the ideas are there, almost no planning is needed. After all, that's how Smash 4's roster mainly is. Brawl ported characters with the same music, voices, and just slightly tweaked move properties. The codebase I'm guessing is either the same engine, or mostly copy pasted. (even the same bugs are present).