TSR's Super Smash Bros Thread|SWITCH HYPE TRAIN NOW BOARDING

[Phantom Killah]

Well the point still is that capturing a character "accurately" is not something important in Smash. Sakurai acting like it is or that he does do a good job capturing these characters accurately is bullshit. Unfortunately he says these lies all the time in interviews.

Now that I think about it, he's actually true to his word for some of these characters.  Mr. Game & Watch, the third-party trio (especially Mega Man; look at all those custom specials), Olimar, Little Mac, Bowser Jr., and Duck Hunt come to mind.  I'm sure there's more.

It seems like most of the newer additions have movesets that strongly reference their games, but a lot of the veterans have been grandfathered into using moves that don't reflect them as well, because people expect their favourite characters to play the way they've always played. People got mad when they gave Mario FLUDD, for example.

as others have been saying, can't please everyone

[Kosheh]

Well the point still is that capturing a character "accurately" is not something important in Smash. Sakurai acting like it is or that he does do a good job capturing these characters accurately is bullshit. Unfortunately he says these lies all the time in interviews.

A Smash fan will eat his lies up and praise him. But a Nintendo fan knows better.

Maybe if Sakurai said something like: "I work as hard as I can. I'm only human and I can't do everything perfect." Then I could understand him better.

I'm not sure why I'm reading this as "Yo dude fuck balance I want my characters to be 100% true to their game and be pure to its IP and pure to me"

Smash is a difficult game to balance. If Sakurai were to pull from every IP, the roster and balance would be a complete mess. Fox would be carrying around a rocket launcher, DK would have his stupid thrust lunge attack from DK64, Pikachu would only be able to use four attacks, and Marth would require that the player end the player phase so he can move and attack (but must stop if an enemy is in his way). If that were the case, even more people would complain because the game wouldn't feel fun anymore, it'd just feel like a clusterfuck of fan favorites in a platformer that you can sometimes hit the other opponent.

The thing is, at the same time that Sakurai has to create Smash and give characters their feel, he also has to create a varied roster of characters that allow for a balanced, fun experience found in a fighting game (brawler, whatever. You punch, it's a fighting game in this example) Fox can't carry the anti-aircraft rocket launcher from N64 nor can he use the gatling gun, because he'd probably be way too slow handling them and using those would be cumbersome. Falco can't use them either. Instead, Fox and Falco were made into close-range rushdown "needlers" that contrast with Donkey Kong's brick-wall moveset.

Then, of course there's the "clone characters" from Melee. I have absolutely no idea why Sakurai put them in (I'm assuming time constraints? Filling character slots to make fanboys rage?), but even their Luigified movesets made them varied enough from their original counterparts that some people insist on playing those characters instead (for example, Roy being a somewhat slower but more powerful version of Marth, taken out of Brawl to be replaced with Whoa-Definitely-Not-Roy, Lucas in Brawl being Ness with enough alternate properties on his attacks to make him play completely differently from Ness)

In short, when it comes to making games, gameplay and ensuring the game is mechanically sound comes way before appealing to fanservice with game-accurate portrayals.

(see also: Team Indie, a lackluster platforming game about a gamer's cat featuring indie game characters for the sake of using indie game characters in a "cool crossover")

[Kriven]

Is it just me, or is Nintendo getting a little sloppy with their games ever since patching and DLC became a big thing for them?

I feel like this is the case with at least Mario Kart 8 and SSBWU. I don't know if it's about being able to fix things later with DLC, or if it's because they're putting more energy into the primary game (in the case of MK8, the tracks themselves which are all awesome. In the case of Smash, the balancing), or if it's because creating games in HD is super time-consuming (it's probably both), but these two titles have seriously been lacking in areas where every single one of their predecessors certainly were not. The end result is that, even though the games are technically superior and are really fun when you stick to the primary modes (Grand Prix, Versus Cup for Mario Kart, Classic, All-Star, Smash for... Smash), when you go into some of the sub-modes (Battle in Mario Kart, primarily, and Events, Stage Builder, Smash Run/Smash Tour in Smash) they feel half-baked. When Mario Kart 8 came out, they didn't even allow it as an option to have the map displayed on the screen, not even in the extra corner when you had a three-player race going on. That's something every iteration of Mario Kart has included, and it's one of the little touches (and note I'm talking about the option, not the necessity) that have made the games so easy to use in the past. Smash also features all kinds of strange little things that hamper the game's ease-of-use, but it's felt a lot more than it was in Mario Kart. The lack of reset button for Event Matches means getting kicked into the Events screen and having to reload the entire match every single time you suck (which is often, since a lot of them are chance-based). The fact that the Quit Combo (L + R + A + Start) requires you to have tentacle-fingers is just awful. I find myself getting pissed off at Smash Bros. in a way I haven't gotten pissed off at video games since I was six, and it's not because the game is too hard... it's because it has become inconvenient (and in the case of the quit buttons, painful).

[Gwen]

I honestly liked not having the map plastered on the screen, it was less distracting to just look down at my gamepad quickly. Don't really mind the battle mode either, I thought Mario Kart 8 was frickin fresh as fuck.

[Kriven]

That's why "Options".

Like, for people who want to use the Pro Controller or local multiplayer. It's tough to play with three people craning over my shoulder/having to be among three people craning over the shoulder of the lone GamePad cowboy.

[Gwen]

Eh, it just doesn't bug me, I honestly don't even look down often at all. The only reason I ever look at it is to see how far ahead I am and I've just gone to looking back instead heh.

[Kriven]

At present, since I've played MK8 enough to adjust to it, it doesn't bother me. The first month I had the game, though, I felt... lost. It was like every stage was Yoshi's Valley 64. That's fun for that one level, because that's the specific gimmick (or maybe the N64 just couldn't process who was in the lead with all those different routes?) Looking down at the GamePad is, for me, completely distracting. Even though the Wii U offers to screens to use, I basically still prefer just one because of the way things are situated (as opposed to the DS, where the screens are literally attached).

One thing I miss as far as "How far ahead am I?" are the little face squares from MK64. You could set them to run around the entire outer edge of the screen, and I think each side was a full lap or something like that.

[Jermungandr]

I just encountered a weird bug, or maybe it's less of a bug and more of an oversight.

I was playing the 3-Minute Multi-Man Smash for the first time. I played as Bowser and killed around 65 enemies before I got myself killed stupidly.

So I played it again and I thought to myself, just for kicks and giggles, I would try completing the 3-Minutes without getting any KOs at all. In other words, just dodge around the entire time.

So I do just that, and then I leave, and what a surprise, the game says I completed a Challenge: "Clear a 3-Minute Smash after getting 60 or more KOs".

Except ... I didn't get the 60 KOs in the same session that I cleared it in.

So apparently ... all the game pays attention to is how many KOs a character has on record, and if they had ever completed it?

(I didn't return to the character selection screen between fights, btw, I just chose to restart. I don't know if that contributed to it at all.)

[Kriven]

SSBWU saves up your rewards display until you actually leave the challenge, allowing for seamless trial and error. It also saves the score of every round that is allowed to finish.

[Jermungandr]

No you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. The task is to clear a match with 60 KOs. I didn't do that. I got 60 KOs and then failed. And then, in a completely new match, I cleared it without getting any KOs.

I'm assuming when it says "clear" it means "actually survive the complete 3-minutes" right?

[Kriven]

Oh.

Huh.

I wonder if the game just doesn't know what to do with zero KOs. I'm kind of tempted to start a new save and test this.
Do challenges carry over between Wii U profiles?

[Mystie]

At present, since I've played MK8 enough to adjust to it, it doesn't bother me. The first month I had the game, though, I felt... lost. It was like every stage was Yoshi's Valley 64. That's fun for that one level, because that's the specific gimmick (or maybe the N64 just couldn't process who was in the lead with all those different routes?) Looking down at the GamePad is, for me, completely distracting. Even though the Wii U offers to screens to use, I basically still prefer just one because of the way things are situated (as opposed to the DS, where the screens are literally attached).

One thing I miss as far as "How far ahead am I?" are the little face squares from MK64. You could set them to run around the entire outer edge of the screen, and I think each side was a full lap or something like that.

Sorry for derailing the topic, but I actually never had any problem with not having a map in MK8. I've always found the map useless anyway.

[Iceman404]

I feel like if the 3DS version weren't made with so much time being allocated to it, Smash U would be leagues more impressive than it already is now.

[Virt]

Do challenges carry over between Wii U profiles?

Everything carries over between profiles. The only differences are that screenshots and stages are saved under different names, and your specific profile's username shows online, from what I've seen.

[Mystie]

So basically, what I'm getting from this thread is that SSB4 on Wii U is a huge disappointment.

That's sad.   But I'll still ask for it on Christmas anyway.