TSR's Super Smash Bros Thread|SWITCH HYPE TRAIN NOW BOARDING

[[robo9]]

Fun fact, Chris-Chan was actually arrested recently. She pepper-sprayed a GameStop manager, because she was being tossed out of a GameStop. A GameStop that she was banned from because she was protesting the blue armed Sonic in Sonic Boom.

If you're wondering about the feminine pronouns, Chris-Chan identifies as a woman now.

Spoiler

But I'm getting off topic, but certain people in the FGC are pretty shitty, especially when it comes to Smash.

[Kriven]

The thing is, it doesn't matter what autists would prefer society do or what they would prefer to be called. I'm not saying this as somebody who wants all the autists to shut up or whatever, I'm saying this as somebody who has been on the receiving end of these insults and has watched them change with the commonly accepted vernacular. When it was medically professional to refer to people with brain damage/disease as "Retarded", that's the word morons used to insult people. Before that it was "Slow". Both of those are still in common usage as insults, and both of those were professionally changed because people wanted to disassociate mental disfunction from those negative words. The jerks just followed suit, adopting the new terminology for their own purposes. I've been hearing "aspie" used as an insult lately, and how long has "sped" been a thing? For a while people were trying to even use ADD/ADHD as an insulting term, but that just doesn't fly off the tongue easily, so it never stuck.

Whatever new terminology pops up medically or ethically or whathaveyou is just going to be adopted by these jerks. They don't care what anybody has to say about it, they are trying to be insulting. It doesn't matter what anybody really has to say about it, because these kinds of people are already trying to hurt. They do not care, and no number of PSAs are going to change them. You can try explaining to them why it's offensive, that it's stigmatizing an entire subset of the population, but they already know that. That's why they're doing it if they're over the age of twelve.

[psychospacecow]

We're way off topic now though so moving on. So, is the online any better on the wii u version?

[Kriven]

Both times I've tried to use the online it has dropped out. Once I experienced massive lag and the game literally had the "loading" icon playing for three full minutes during the battle.

[Jermungandr]

It's presumably a lot better now than it was when the game was first released, but I haven't tried it personally.

[Iceman404]

I wonder where people pull this ratio of casual and competitive from, because when I go on For Glory (a mode everyone will play at least more than once), I see some really hard ass people. I mean have you SEEN those Links sometimes? A lot of people enjoy pushing themselves to be really good no matter the title, though some waaaaaaaaaaaay moreso than others.

To be honest, Sakurai's quote there is really weird. You can cater to the competitive crowd without affecting the casual crowd in the slightest. Keep the skill floor the same and raise the skill ceiling to higher heights and you're basically done. Anyone who doesn't care for competitive play won't notice. I really can't understand the guy's inability to process that although casual players make the initial sales, competitive players are what can drive a game for several years to come.

Melee is only still relevant because of that crowd, accident of a high skill ceiling game or not; it's still going for absurd prices in 2015, 14 years after it's initial release. It is literally impossible for this to be for the sake of it's nostalgia factor or rarity, the thing was produced like pancakes and every successor has significantly more content than it ever contained; this is because of it's gameplay that happened to turn out unexpectedly deep, spawning loads of hype and spread by word.

If anything, keeping the casual skill floor and raising the competitive ceiling can only help the Smash Bros. series tremendously without disappointing either side for one or the other, and it does not need to be done through silly movement option exploits like wave-dashing. Just lower landing lag, make gravity heavier, increase hit-stun and DI strength, increase speed, have momentum carry between jumps (this one is just common game knowledge Sakurai), and wallah (no, Special Smash does not fix these problems). No one would complain audibly enough to have the community so split as it is now if they balanced a game around that.

Also Smash 4 may lean toward casual more, but compared to Brawl it's much more competitive and balanced. Brawl was the only inflatable middle finger to the competitive crowd, Smash Bros has always been fun to play in either fashion neglecting that title. I've literally been having endless fun with this game so far, regardless of my thoughts of it possibly having the potential to be better or not.

I conclude with just my dislike for Sakurai now in general with his recent statements on everything. He invented a great concept and still makes incredible titles, but he seems to REALLY hate the other side of his fan base that I'm basically partially included in, and makes it his job to erase possibilities of pleasing them (though this game turned that around slightly from Brawl). All he had to do was probably just bat an eye to the competitive scene and leave the gameplay properties as they were (removing wavedashing was a necessity for professional polish though); they're weren't hurting anybody.





Oh also, I'm pleased with how mature TSR is with dealing with members that enjoy the competitive scene. You wouldn't believe the shitty comments that I'd be seeing in hate if this were basically anywhere else on the internet (a good deal of casual players have somehow become even more elitist in their tone toward anyone who disagrees with them and would usually gang up in this situation, as ironic as that sounds). Honestly surprised I haven't seen "HURR DURR FINAL DESTINATION FOX ONLY HOW DO YOU EVEN HAVE FUN UGH YOU DON'T LIKE IT BECAUSE IT ISN'T MELEE".

"Casual" "Competitive", they're just play style preference, nothing forced on anyone.

[Koopaul]

Well I still hate the labels and I still hate how my playstyle isn't taken seriously. People only respect you or acknowledge you if you play a certain way. And having that For Fun/ For Glory further pushes the idea that people only play two ways.

So I don't like Sakurai's veiws either. He makes new items and stages without considering balancing them because they're "For Fun".

And no offense to the competeive people, but if they were in charge, they be the same way. They'd focus most of their efforts on the "competetive" side of things while items or stages with gimmicks would be an afterthought.

Be honest competive people. If you were designing the game and testing items would you say: "Hm the Gust Bellows seems too powerful. We need to fix that." or would you say "Welp it's for casual play so WHO CARES! Anything goes!"

[NICKtendo DS]

I do whatever the fuck I want in Smash Bros. Just because there's a casual way and a competitive way to play it doesn't mean I'm excluded from one for favoring the other.

[Kriven]

I don't understand why wavedashing had to be removed for "professional polish", by tbat logic Street Fighter shouldn't utilize its combo system. (not advocating wavedashing. Don't understand the polish perspective.)

[Iceman404]

Because it has no actual animation, hurts to perform in a consecutive manner, and your character is screaming one million times a stock while dust is flying and spamming everywhere. It just looks unintended, and you can have a competitive smash game without it, my point is that it doesn't have to be Melee to be fun and competitive! Every single other thing that made Melee competitive made sense or looked less ridiculous, intended behaviours. Though I did prefer single air dodging, the addition of multiple has seriously ruined the game in terms of offensive play.

There's this usual assumption that Melee was the only competitive Smash title and most of the time because of wavedashing, have you seen the 64 scene? It was even more advanced and enjoyed than Brawl

Also Koopaul, sorry but your post is just baseless assumptions.

Edit: Actually its an interesting topic though, considering I play both ways. I hate to sound pretentious, but if competitive players were in charge, some unnecessarily powerful items would probably be much more balanced; whoever conceived gust bellows would have been fired.

Edit2: In fact, if a competitive developer had time, they'd make any stage with hazards and gimmicks a lot less annoying to EVERYONE in general. You can't assume competitive players are blind to other styles of whacky play and want everything stale and tourney viable. I'm sure those stages would still exist, there just wouldn't be bullshit like the Yellow Devil.



Did anyone enjoy the Yellow Devil???

[TomGuycott]

I think wavedashing was removed more because the mechanics of air dodging was changed. They wanted Brawl to have this different air game experience, so they made floatier physics and changed the dodge so that it didn't add extra momentum. It wasn't so much as removing the dash because of polish.

Personally, I'm not a supporter of the wave dash. I find the Melee air dodge awkward and a little bit nonsensical. I'd be all for a new Air Dash that sort of captures that original mechanic; although it would alter horizontal gameplay slightly, it would be interesting to have just a little extra horizontal push. However, as an actual dodge I didn't like it that much.

[Ton]

Fun fact, Chris-Chan was actually arrested recently. She pepper-sprayed a GameStop manager, because she was being tossed out of a GameStop. A GameStop that she was banned from because she was protesting the blue armed Sonic in Sonic Boom.

If you're wondering about the feminine pronouns, Chris-Chan identifies as a woman now.

Spoiler

But I'm getting off topic, but certain people in the FGC are pretty shitty, especially when it comes to Smash.

Every time I think this saga can't get any weirder...

[Iceman404]

CWC Wiki is such an amazing place

[Lemonray]

Spoiler

It rubs the lotion on its skin. It does this whenever it's told.
_____________________________________________

I'm actually very surprised how little I've played SSB4. I think my total time in-game is only fifteen hours, which is almost nothing. Hm, I'm a little annoyed Sakurai has announced that there will be no balance patches, and the online options seem lacking. Oh well.

[Koopaul]

Yeah stage bosses like the Yellow Devil were a terrible idea. No one wants to play on Mega Man's stage now no matter what playstyle you choose.

It's especially insulting to people who are fans of Ridley. At least in Brawl he was a cool boss, now he's just annoying and no one wants to play with him there.

Now I kind of miss boss battle mode.