TSR's Super Smash Bros Thread|SWITCH HYPE TRAIN NOW BOARDING

[Keychain]

This type of complaint is kinda retarded though

Like, think about it for a sec. Even though Ganondorf's a slower and stronger Captain Falcon in his essence, you shouldn't just change characters like that:

1- Even though they aren't related, that's how Ganon first came to be. Slight edits can be done but entire move swaps are too much a difference;
2- There are people who main and enjoy Ganon like this. People will not like if they swap movesets even if it seems "more accurate". In other words, that would be like, getting Ken, make him a charge character and transfer his attack types to M. Bison. This would put off many people who like Ken and learned to fight with his tactics;
3- Just because they're from the same franchise, I doubt Black Shadow would have similar fighting scheme as Captain Falcon. Sure, you can argue that Ganon shouldn't even have these powers to start with; but just because Black Shadow is from the same franchise as CF, it doesn't need to be like that. Honestly I'd prefer Black Shadow as another entirely different character.

Ganondorf is my main in every Smash Bros game. Trust me, I'm well aware. The Black Shadow logic obviously comes from the fact that Falco/Fox and Ness/Lucas fight similarly to their counterparts, and the only real justification for it is that they're in the same universe/franchise, possibly learning their ability to fight from the similar sources. (though Fox and Falco aren't really similar anymore since Falco's been changed so drastically since Melee)

The thing is that Ganondorf has a lot of things that he could potentially do but just doesn't. Project M did this really well. His grounded neutral B is replaced with a cape projectile reflect, and his air neutral b is a mid-air hover. It's pretty cool and gives him much better recovery. These two things help solve a lot of what makes Ganondorf a below average fighter by giving him ways to fight against his biggest weaknesses. Also, if you hold his sword taunt, he does a full sword swing that has the same power and MORE range than that of the Warlock Punch. It's great. If we had those little features mixed with Smash 4 Ganondorf, that would be my favorite version of Ganon in any Smash game.

[Gors]

I think that the fact that Falco and Fox shares the same moveset is because they are from the same space fighting team, which kinda would make sense. Not sure if this applies to Ness/Lucas though as they don't match this thought

But I really can't imagine why Black Shadow would mimic C. Falcon in any way, given that 1- he already has Blood Falcon for that, and 2- just because they race in the same competition, that doesn't mean they should share moves (unless i'm missing something here, not too keen on F-Zero lore)

Note that I am not saying, 'ganon is A-OK' but more like 'you shouldn't go wild on already consagrated attack/moveset'. If these moves are added as alternate moves (now SSB allows this) then it's perfect

[NICKtendo DS]

Ness and Lucas are both psychic kids, so they do psychic kid stuff.

[Ark Kuvis]

Honestly, people keep bringing up Black Shadow as a second F-Zero rep, but honestly Goroh or bust. While all the F-Zero racers are cool and unique and comic booky, Black Shadow's general design is kind of lame and basic. Really doesn't loan itself to any kind of moveset, especially not Ganondorf's.

Plus, while I guess he's technically the "bad guy" in F-Zero, he's not really a notable villain. In F-Zero X he was just one of the 30 racers. In GX, Black Shadow wasn't even the main villain, that was Deathborn. And while he was the main villain in the GP Legend anime, I'm pretty sure Captain Falcon was a supporting character in that thing.

F-Zero's a cool franchise and all, but honestly I don't think it deserves two fighters, especially with how literally dead the franchise is these days. If it did get another character, I'd probably put my money on one of the original 4 racers, like Goroh. But as it stands, Goroh's an Assist Trophy.

[DioShiba]

Honestly if F-Zero does get another rep they may as well put in Pico, if not Samural Goroh.

Pico has very minimal representation outside of the F-Zero series itself and he was an assassin. I'm sure there can be things that Sakurai can pull out of his ass to come up with a decent move set for him in the same way captain falcon got his "falcon punch" or "falcon kick" thing was made up.

[NICKtendo DS]

I'd still go for Black Shadow though. I doubt a character that's merely known for wielding a katana could have a stand out moveset. Pico has the most potential here, but I still think Black Shadow has more fame. After all, the original four made no on-screen appearance on the SNES, just their machines.

Black Shadow being heavy, resilient and powerful might be cliché for a villian character, but the stats are easy to recognize. The Black Bull is heavy, resilient and powerful too. Maybe a couple of swift moves to reference his racing roots (perhaps an attack called Boost Power?) and a ton of Black Magic and he might be the Dark Lord character we wanted Ganondorf to be.
Attack options: Boost Fire, Spin Attack, Side Attack.

[Kriven]

To be honest, I would much rather have Deathborn over Black Shadow... Deathborn has a far weightier and more intimidating design. Particularly if we're going with the common moveset-swap mentality, Deathborn could pull off Falcondorf's moves much more naturally than Black Shadow could.

[Koopaul]

You guys need to realize something. There are two types of people out there, Ganondorf Fans and Smash Ganondorf Fans.

Ganondorf Fans love the character for who be is in his games outside of Smash. Smash Ganondorf Fans love the character because of how he plays. So by that logic, as long as that playstyle, moveset, and traits still exist in the game those Fans should still be happy. Right?

I sort of hate this idea that how the characters are represented in Smash is somehow more important than who they are in their games. No, its who they are in their games that is most important and Smash should do its best to reflect that. They should come up with a moveset and traits that are based on the character's appearances in their series, and then make alterations in order for said character to work in Smash.

For example, ROB in real life can't actually move about the place. Dude's got got no legs! But in Smash you have to be able to move around. So they gave him jets. See, that's okay. With Captain Falcon, the guy never leaves his F-Zero machine, so he's literally a blank slate. They made up a completely original moveset for him, and that's okay.

Also that M.Bison/ Ken argument made earlier doesn't work. See those characters are FROM Street Fighter! The moveset they have is who they are and they shouldn't change that. But in Smash its not the same case. These characters aren't from this game and therefore they shouldn't have to be tied to that moveset.

As for Black Shadow, he's much like Falcon. He comes from a game where characters don't do anything outside their vehicles. So you can give him anything you want! Why not give him Ganondorf's current moveset?

[TomGuycott]

Ganondorf's moveset is an excellent match for Ocarina of Time Ganondorf, and honestly is okay for TP Dorf as well.

Also I love how you're like "You can give Black Shadow anything you want!... Casually throw a moveset already used by two other characters at him instead of anything else!"

[Iceman404]

None of you guys have addressed how terrible Ganondorf's neutral is, lmao

[Ark Kuvis]

None of you guys have addressed how terrible Ganondorf's neutral is, lmao

yo, Iceman. real talk here, we're not all competitive fucks like you. We all don't fucking masturbate to Mango. So like real talk, please realize that the majority of who you're speaking to don't literally give a shit about tourney play.

like real talk, if you want to discuss this, please go back to Smash Boards. We don't want to discuss things with you if you're going to be condescending. I honestly get annoyed at every post you've ever posted in this thread. Please, either casual down or just go away. Preferably the latter, thanks.

[Iceman404]

Who're you?



Your salt'll go great on these fries. You entirely bashed my post because I used a term that deals with competitive play but applies to any method of playing.

For those of you who don't understand, "neutral" is how well you can approach another character to lead into something advantageous. Ganon can't approach for his life, so any change that's made to him would be nice, he's a really bad character that could use some sort of projectile. Wizard Ganon is definitely a plus because any sort of magic or sword use is bound to increase his range for doing so. His moveset is fun, but personally I don't think many a ganon-main would be worried if it was changed slightly to incorporate more of his canon design. Why does he have to take one movepool or the other? Just do what Project M did to him and it should be satisfying. Change some animations to incorporate dual wielding or something.

[Keychain]

yo, Iceman. real talk here, we're not all competitive fucks like you. We all don't fucking masturbate to Mango. So like real talk, please realize that the majority of who you're speaking to don't literally give a shit about tourney play.

like real talk, if you want to discuss this, please go back to Smash Boards. We don't want to discuss things with you if you're going to be condescending. I honestly get annoyed at every post you've ever posted in this thread. Please, either casual down or just go away. Preferably the latter, thanks.

Are you seriously bashing someone for talking about Smash in a Smash thread? even if it's not something you care about, it's still smash-related. There's no rules for talking about comp in this thread. I care about competitive Smash so don't speak for me and don't speak for everyone else as if you are in any position to be doing so. The OP even has a reference to competitive Smash in it for crying out loud

What a god damn child

[psychospacecow]

It just occurred to me, with how Konami is treating Smash, I wonder if we're ever gonna see Snake again.

[Ark Kuvis]

isn't there a competitive thread? like just hivemind there. Really, it's not so much Iceman's content that is his condescending tone. I totally understand what he's talking about, but really we're not here talking about competitive Ganondorf. We're just generally talking about Ganondorf. And you just assume literally everyone around you is on your level.

who the fuck are you, really?