More Apologies

[Petie]

Hey everyone. I figured now would be a good time to clear the air regarding my part in yesterday's incident. I had planned on actually cleaning up the mess I made after I woke up (I stayed up as late as I could but I needed to get to bed for work) but Vipershark beat me to it and I am definitely grateful for the assistance.

So, let me start by apologizing for the way I handled things yesterday. I'll be the first to admit that I was never a fan of the lounge as it seemed like a dumping ground for things that were, at best, questionable and, at worst, outright against the rules for the rest of the forum. In large part, I still believe that's true but it was made clear to me yesterday how at least a few of the threads there brought a lot of enjoyment to the community and I really should have been more open-minded about them instead of just sticking to my overly literal definition of spam.

StarSock, in particular, I owe an apology to as well. You were genuinely trying to hold an open discussion with me regarding your views and the reasoning you and others felt that threads like the funny image thread should be allowed. I thought I was doing the same but, in hindsight, I was ignoring your most important (and, admittedly, completely valid) point about the thread providing value to the community being a fair counter-point to its otherwise questionable nature. I was so focused on the fact that it was "spam" and didn't belong in general that I neglected the fact that my definition could be wrong or that there was nowhere else it could possibly go. So, my sincere apologies for not taking you seriously yesterday. I was far too closed-minded and a bit too frustrated to carry out an honest discussion at the time.

As far as arguing in public with staff, something I'm not particularly proud of given that I'm not a fan of public call-outs like that in general, I think I was just mad at the blatant disrespect I was shown. Regardless of whether my decision to close the thread was wrong, I felt that, if he disagreed, he should have brought it up with me directly, in the staff forum, or in the discussion that was already going on. Just reversing my decision and publicly calling me out for being wrong didn't sit well with me and that definitely contributed to my stubbornness regarding that thread.

That being said though, I really shouldn't have shot back at him in public either. It was a heat of the moment, knee-jerk reaction but I completely invalidated my own point in a single post so to Gors, I'm sorry for my part in our butting heads. And to everyone else, I'm sorry for dragging a private conversation into the public and then letting that affect my judgement.

I think we've reached a good compromise with the way things work now - it allows for fun threads without flooding the forum with garbage and while I wish the road to get to this point wasn't so rocky, I'm glad we're here. So hopefully, we can put this all behind us and cary on having a good time again.

[Rystar]

I'm just glad everything has cooled down now. I like this compromise much more than the previous decision reached for the Lounge, and I believe things will be much better not only for the forum, but for the community as a whole ^_^

[Shawn]

I guess since everyone's doing it, I hope you don't mind if I throw in my apologies here as well?

First off, let me admit that I really, genuinely, don't care about the vast majority of people on this forum, partially because I don't know them at all, partially because I don't want to. However, while the community means nothing to me, I do rely on the main site as a source of inspiration, so I do respect the staff for their hard work put into it. Sorry if I give you guys a hard time with my shit posting and constant complaining about everything.

Secondly, I apologize for any problems I may have caused regarding Sengir. If it's not already known, I actually am friends with the guy, and was fully aware that he had no intention of being a mod here regardless of what was going on. If my posts about him editing my profile(while true) caused any distrust between the mods and himself, I do somewhat regret doing so. Sengir ain't a bad guy. But he is my friend so he's also kind of a terrible guy? It's a weird thing. He AAAAIIIGHT.

Admittedly though, I feel my 20% warn for saying "ban sengir" is really uncalled for and undeserving.

Lastly, the infamous Ancient Golem John, who we all know and love. I've been trying to avoid this whole thing since it truly has nothing to do with me BUT I will admit, I do know who he is. AGJ is a friend of mine, and was not an active member of tVGR on a seperate account during or prior to AGJ's reign. He is NOT Chad. He isn't even from the same country as Chad, so I don't know where that accusation came from. The blatant fact is John is a friend of ours, who is more or less socially challenged and can't type worth a damn and wished to be a part of tVGR.

And for the sake of civility, I'd prefer if no one replied to this post regarding AGJ's identity or actions or whether or not I'm even telling the truth. Believe me or not, this is all I have to say.

Sincerely,

Shawn "Shawn" Martins

[Alt]

I too know who AGJ is, but I originally had nothing to do with him, it was only the past week I found out who he was and only used my extra account (which was 2 YEARS OLD BTW) to only jokingly mess around in his rep, nothing more, nothing less. So I had very little association with that account, and jokingly put it in as a referral when I made this new account. I felt the joke had gone a bit overboard and I had 0 clue of what was going on in the forum until the wipe, all the negativity going on was not making the forum seem welcoming thus when that new lounge was made I think people just wanted to have fun, even if the jokes were ridiculous, I think it proved a point in where negativity can lead off to. (since the new lounge wasn't made in good spirits.)

So whatever trouble I possibly caused, I really didn't mean any of it. (for the record, I did kind of ask for both of my accounts to be banned since I found it strange I was able to get away with alts for this long.) As long as the staff are in good spirits again I can finally make use of this new account without worry, I don't think anyone deserves any punishment at this point since we're all grown folk here and knew exactly what we go ourselves into, we should only just move on and forget what happened.

Also I want to start spriting projects again, which is why I even came back, not because of the nonsense.

[Dazz]

As long as the staff are in good spirits again I can finally make use of this new account without worry

You've actually been quite a good contribution to the community the past couple days, to my surprise (no offense, just based on your past record) - I'd love to have you around more if you continue this way. I'm sure the staff would all agree.

I think as a whole, the past community and ourselves have gotten over any qualms we have had, and we're just looking to move forward and stop attacking one another pointlessly.

[StarSock64]

I should probably address this since I was mentioned specifically

I'm not mad about what happened, so no worries about bad blood. I mean, I said what I thought had to be said, but I knew there was a lot of stress involved and didn't take it personally. I think it means a lot that we can chat openly about it after the fact, though, so I appreciate it.

[GaryASPG]

I love all of you, except Gors until he removes my negative rep.

Also I want John back - I only met him through Shawn but he was a really cool guy and his posts were always great. He did genuinely (mostly) try to stay on topic everywhere he posted and I don't really think his horrible grammar should get him banned. I don't actually know if he wants to come back now since last I talked to him he was pretty miffed about the whole ordeal, but if he got an apology or something he'd probably come back.

Other than that, I don't have any problems. I thought locking the Image thread was a bit stupid but I can also understand why you did, Petie. While I do think there shouldn't be any outright spam in GD, it'd be nice if the rules were a bit more relaxed here as opposed to all the other forums. Spamhaul was great while it lasted and even with no rules rarely did we get any actual shitposting - sometimes things got out of hand, sometimes we pushed things too far, but considering there were no rules people didn't actually tend to act out in there. I don't think we should return to the extreme of Spamhaul for GD, but it would be nice if things weren't so strict.

[Vipershark]

Other than that, I don't have any problems. I thought locking the Image thread was a bit stupid but I can also understand why you did, Petie. While I do think there shouldn't be any outright spam in GD, it'd be nice if the rules were a bit more relaxed here as opposed to all the other forums. Spamhaul was great while it lasted and even with no rules rarely did we get any actual shitposting - sometimes things got out of hand, sometimes we pushed things too far, but considering there were no rules people didn't actually tend to act out in there. I don't think we should return to the extreme of Spamhaul for GD, but it would be nice if things weren't so strict.

Fortunately, that's a change I just made.

As far as John goes, I don't really know or care who he is but unless you guys can prove that he isn't an alt then he's gonna stay banned. Being all secretive over his identity isn't exactly helping your case and while I thought he was funny, alt accounts are still against the rules.

[Kriven]

Shouldn't the burden of proof fall on proving that he is an alt and not the other way around?

[FRET]

Shouldn't the burden of proof fall on proving that he is an alt and not the other way around?

Absolutely. I don't really see a problem with having multiple accounts anyway, it's just what people do with them...

[water dog]

I'd like to apologize to Dazz for calling him a fascist. It was a heat of the moment thing and I told Rhyme I would uphold his honor.

[puggsoy]

I'm glad how this turned out. Yesterday was an unpleasant day and especially after Sengir left I became genuinely worried and concerned about the future of this place. Not only do I love the website and submitting resources, but the community is very important to me and has had a significant effect on me as a person, and I would be at a loss if it were to fall apart so suddenly.

I didn't involve myself much in the discussion, for fear of making it worse than it already was (as well as not really having much to add). I'm very glad it cooled over this quickly though and I'm more than content with the solution. I can understand everybody's reasons for saying and doing what they did, and that more than anything it was a matter of miscommunication and clouded judgement.

I'm just happy that everything is nice and friendly again

[Spacebake]

As far as John goes, I don't really know or care who he is but unless you guys can prove that he isn't an alt then he's gonna stay banned. Being all secretive over his identity isn't exactly helping your case and while I thought he was funny, alt accounts are still against the rules.

That guy wasn't an alt, I met him a few days ago through Kori/Shawn/Chad who i've known for a while and I spoke to him personally on Skype. He's just as retarded on Skype calls as he seems on VGR, so he's either an actor worthy of an oscar or he's a genuine guy.
I don't really care that he's banned and I don't think he's too bothered about it either, but I just wanted to make it clear that as far as I can tell he never had another account and he never broke any rules here. Every post i ever saw him make was on topic too, even if was written in broken English.

[Maxpphire]

Shouldn't the burden of proof fall on proving that he is an alt and not the other way around?

Chad admitted to us that he was AGJ

I don't know what more proof you guys want, other then the fact he'll say it over Skype and not on the Forums.

That being said sometimes I get conflicted with being staff here.

Like I don't know how to sprite, I've submitted all of one sheet, and I'm not fairly great artistic wise, so I tend to be very much more community based more then anything. I don't post a lot, but thats mainly because I don't really talk much anyway, but if I do have something to add I always do and tend to read more what others have to say instead, and I tend to be know very much what the community likes in terms of how the forums are upkept and things they'd like to see.

Not everyone on the staff team sees this, mainly because either they are more worried about other aspects of the site, or they have lives, or maybe they don't understand as well, or whathaveyou. Sometimes it is hard for me to even mention things, mainly because I know they will be shot down, even more so nowadays.

I've been a staff member here longer then most, even with my 2 year break, I've seen corruption on multiple levels, then it being fought with by "The Dancer's/Dog's/Shrek Resource" and sexism, and other really annoying or morally bad things, and I do think that in a way kinda ruined with how things got handled here. I think a lot of that kinda ruined was how the community was perceived. Not just by other gaming and art communities but by the staff itself and it's absolutely fucking heartbreaking to me because a lot of the time members who are trying to respectfully tell the staff "Hey, I don't agree with you on this thing and I think you're handling it poorly" get met with a really nasty response more often then not, like with what happened with Angie.

This is also why I get so fucking annoyed and angry when someone pulls of shit like AGJ. Don't get me wrong, I love Chad the Dad, I think he is a great guy and I worry about his future. I worry about him going to jail, about how is ankles are healing up, about how he is doing mentally. It's just when shit like this gets pulled and then people get upset over us banning the account, then an actual serious issue appears like The Lounge issue (Yes this is a serious issue, a whole section of the forum was disappearing) and then the people on Staff who have the Final Say in everything don't take the community seriously because of shit like this and consider people being childish over things when the majority of them aren't.

I think this kinda perpetuates the bad reputation we already have. "Well the staff doesn't take the community seriously, so the community has turned into shit, and a lot of really rude and mean people go there as a result." It has nothing to do with Pixeltendo anymore, that was 7, seven, *SEVEN* years ago. People grow up, change, and disappear in seven years. You really think that us asking other communities to advertise TUGS a couple years ago and them telling us no has to do with something that at that point was 5 years ago? Pft please, I doubt any of them really remember Pixeltendo except maybe MFGG. I think it more or less has to do with our own shit that we made.

What really sucks is feeling powerless to make any form of change for the better. Thats actually one of the bigger reasons why I stopped being an admin, and I didn't want to admit this, because not only did it feel as if I let Dazz down, but the entire community and not admitting this and blaming it on personal life factors (which were also a huge contributing factor), allowed me to still be able to face the community and try to help out the best I could from behind the scenes. Which to be honest I worry might be happening to Gors now, and I'm worried Vipershark will become even more harsh as time goes on when he realizes the same thing. I worry about what might happen to this community in the future, because I'm not seeing it get better any time soon and that scares me.

I guess what I'm really saying is that I want this place to grow, but I don't think it will unless both the staff and the community changes how they react to eachother and it scares me to think that things won't change.

[water dog]

Shouldn't the burden of proof fall on proving that he is an alt and not the other way around?

Chad admitted to us that he was AGJ

I don't know what more proof you guys want, other then the fact he'll say it over Skype and not on the Forums.

Woah woah waoh what? I never did such thing. I've never discussed anything even remotely related to John to anyone on the staff. Have I not been a fairly productive member here for quite some time? I realize I have a past here as a "troll" but when was the last time I did anything like make an alt or spam (I'd like to add that I don't think I've ever made an alt or spammed)?

EDIT: Finished your post. ILY you too. But even if John were an alt account, and I'm not claiming he is, it was not me and I wouldn't know who it was.