General Sonic is Terrible Thread

[~Axis~]

Actually yes. Yes they are. In fact I'm pretty sure City Escape as a level exists in Sonic Generation and Sonic Adventure. The Modern Sonic Stage kept it pretty close to the original minus the shit camera, the truck, and a few extra paths to take. The only time where Sonic Stages move away from that formula is during a boss fight, and even then thats not his stage but the end of his stage so it doesn't count as being a stage and I don't think 1/10th of a stage can be considering for his full stage to not being a 2D stage.

Wait a sec the truck was in Sonic Generations too...

The thing is that the level designs in the original encouraged you to slow down and explore on a 3 dimentional plane, benefiting you in the process. Some of the exploration required skill. Remember the loop in City escape in SG that made you bolt down a building which transitioned you from 3D to 2D? Well in the original you could go to the side of it at the bottom, find enemies, bound jump up to them since they were high up, homing attack up the building and get a 1up. See? You werent locked to a 2D plane or even made to follow a certain path like SG. You had freedom to go where you wanted, and that rewarded you. I dont see how to put sections like the one I mentioned in 2D, along with many others located in the same stage and in the whole game. Thats how you could find items like the Light Speed Shoes and Bounce ring. How? Exploring the 3D environment, running and jumping off the main path to some section of the stage that was otherwise unnoticable if you hadnt been curious enough to try. Compare that to Unleashed Day/SG where you feel like you're running on a racetrack with different environments and jumping off the paths to explore either dont work or you die.

You also bash a camera that was made for a shit console over 10 years ago and compare it to ones made in a game for Xbox 360/PS3. It sucked I know but, like, seriously man.

[~DrakoRero~]

I was praising Chao Garden... Hey, did anyone actually enjoy the mech and treasure hunt modes? I didn't.

I enjoyed them

I think I'm the only one who even likes them.

[Koopaul]

I liked the treasure hunt modes too. Then again, I generally enjoy collecting shit.

[E-Man]

Playing as Knuckles in the treasure hunt stages actually felt very good. Climbing up walls, gliding from place to place, and digging in spots to find secrets provides a good amount of enjoyment for me. If it had a lot more polish and ended up as its own spinoff game, I can see it becoming one of the more memorable Sonic titles.

In fact, Knuckles' mode is what made me think that he'd do well in a collectathon game not unlike the ones from the N64 era.

[psychospacecow]

Don't get me wrong. I felt they played well. I was just one of those people that got stuck on any one mission for way too long.

[~DrakoRero~]

Don't get me wrong. I felt they played well. I was just one of those people that got stuck on any one mission for way too long.

I admit, I did get stuck on Meteor Herd for like 21 minutes because I couldn't find the last Emerald shard, then it was in a meteor the whole time : T.

[recme]

yeah, i generally dont like waiting 20 minutes for one emerald shard. the formula was better in the first adventure game, since you can look for emerald shards much easier.

same goes with the mech stages. it was much better in the first adventure game. e-102 gamma just controlled better and thats coming from someone who grew up from sonic adventure 2 battle.

[Kriven]

IMO, Sonic Adventure's emerald hunts are way worse than Sonic Adventure 2's. Knuckle controls much better in the latter game, and I feel like the stages are better designed, for the most part (Aquatic Mine can go fuck itself).

I won't really touch the mech stages, because I liked all three "Mech" characters across both games, but I would prefer they revive Gamma if they intend to utilize that gameplay again. I would much rather see it given to a character who can own that style of gameplay than to have Tails shoehorned into that role.

I guess I would be fine with Eggman keeping the style or Omega adopting it, but Gamma's my favorite.

[Omegajak]

No. Fans want another Sonic 06.

Except one that isn't glitchy or have a fucked up storyline. Tweaked with models that dont look like some reality shit and with improved gameplay.

You know to be honest I don't just want Sonic Advenutre 3. I really do like how Sonic moves and feels in Lost World. What is it exactly that people don't like. I could play the first two levels and the bee hive level almost as much as I pick up and 2D Sonic to pick up and play, I feel comfortable in how Sonic Moves and controls, I never feel like I don't have control of what I'm doing and where I'm going. Neither do I feel like I'm going slow when making choices for paths. So what exactly is it that rubs people the wrong way?

[Iceman404]

>East to West changes sonic's movement speed. [JARRING]

>Run Button

>Absolutely no momentum involved in any sort of movement [CRUCIAL]

>Homing attack cutscenes

[Koopaul]

Sonic Lost World got everything aesthetically right. The sounds, the effects, the colors, the models. Hell even the level design and parkour were genius... in concept.

But the gameplay was flawed. I don't want them to throw out everything they did in Sonic Lost World because there was some stuff I really loved about it.

[Jermungandr]

Sonic Lost World was definitely a step in the right direction. The more cartoony aesthetics and story worked very well, and using the shoulder button to give you some control over Sonic's speed actually felt really good to me. The biggest flaw I feel the game had was in the complexity of the controls. In addition to focusing on speed mechanics, the Sonic games have always been about really simple controls. For example:

Sonic 1; all you had to use was a single button for jump and the D-pad.

Sonic 2 added a spindash, but it still utilized the jump and D-pad, just combining the two at the same time.

Sonic 3 brought in shield powers, and airborne powers for Tails and Knuckles. Still only a single button and the D-pad are required, just push jump a second time in midair.

When the games went 3D in the Adventure games, the controls remained pretty much the same. Pressing jump a second time allowed characters to use their airborne powers, including Sonic's homing dash. And said homing attack was extremely simple and logical to use, most players didn't even require explanation. A second button was added for the spindash out of necessity, which could also be used to do things like the lightspeed dash and bounce attacks, but still two buttons and a joystick was still a very simple and easy to comprehend control scheme.

(A third button could be used to do things in some places, but it was very rare and most of the time ignorable. The only place I can think of where it was required in-level to progress was picking up the keys in Sonic's pyramid stage in SA2).

Et cetera et cetera. Boosting was added at some point (Sonic Rush I think was the first game?) but it still didn't make the game controls feel particularly complicated.

Then Lost World comes out and oh my god simplicity and logic is just thrown out the window.

You got one button for speed, one button for spindashing, one button for slow-rolling (what? why?), two different jump buttons with two different homing attacks, and some other things I can't even remember or care about right now. And most of these buttons don't even feel like their placed in appropriate places on the gamepad.

Most of these are not even necessary. All the game really required was a single button for jumping & homing, a second button for spindash/airstomp and maybe lightdash if they wanted to include it, and a shoulder button for the speed control and parkour. That's basically the same control formula they've been using in the majority of the Sonic 3D games and it would have worked just fine here. The "slowroll" is a complete waste of time; sure it has a purpose kind of, it can be used on slippery and sticky floors to give you better traction, but you know what they could have done to alleviate this problem? NOT USED SLIPPERY OR STICKY FLOORS.

And it's not just the number of buttons the game utelizes that makes the controls feel too complicated for a Sonic game, there's also the overcomplicated homing system. Aside from the fact that there are two different types of homing attacks, one of which is completely unnecessary, you can't even use the basic homing attack to pounce from enemy to enemy easily anymore. You've got to wait until the game targets multiple enemies for you and then hope the game actually bounces from one to another correctly. It's overly complicated, less fun to pull off, and like a lot of the other control issues, not instinctive.

I feel like if, for their next game, they were to take what they did in Lost World and simplify the control scheme, they could actually end up with a pretty solid game. Problem is I have a feeling they're more likely to scrap the Lost World style as a failure altogether, which I feel is disappointing.

[EDIT] Oh, and color powers SUCK.

[Kriven]

in SA2:B, the keys could be picked up with "B" if you positioned yourself properly, so it could remain a two-button experience.

I haven't played Lost World yet (although I thought the 3DS demo was okay). Which version do people recommend?

[Jermungandr]

I've only played the Wii U version so I couldn't really tell you comparatively, but the Wii U version isn't bad, in fact it's mostly pretty good, it just has a lot that could be improved upon.

[~Axis~]

I only played the first level at a friends place on the Wii U. Even though I enjoyed some of the gameplay mechanics, the button placement ruined it for me. Button placement and control simplicity can either make it or break it for games. It broke it for me.