Shit is happening

[Koh]

Unfortunately, there's always going to be a shitstorm like this. It never goes away. But my hope is that we'll eventually have enough resources in place that when these surprise attacks do indeed happen, any damage or loss that can potentially be caused by them is minimized or prevented entirely by being prepared for the worst.

[~Axis~]

Good thing you're alright Lexou. Being a street away and walking away alive is a pretty big thing. I hope everyone you know is alright too man.

[Lexou Duck]

well during the moment i wasn't really scared, rather worried about others, and angry at my texts not working when others were worried about me
actually what got me scared was looking at google maps afterwards

you see, the bar we went to see this concert at was 150m away from la belle équipe, but we kinda got lost on our way to it
we were walking down the rue de charonne -heading towards la belle équipe- but like 30-50m before getting there i noticed we had gotten too far and we turned around
when we got to the bar, we heard gunshots and everybody got inside - we were told to stay inside or try going home, but no one was allowed to stay in front of a bar apart from the security guy, in constant call with the police.
the gig was awesome, but there was definitely a palpable tension (i saw some people in the bar were crying :/ )
so we stayed and later went to my place, taking a route with as many small streets as possible

so yeah i mean nothing really happened to me, but it sucks thinking its just random, and that you're clearly the demographic aimed for- that is, young people who like soccer, music, and drinking - specifically when you realise you were 10 minutes away from seeing the terrorists...
in the end no one i directly know is dead, two are injured but i think that's already very fortunate

and i just sent an email to a professor asking him to give me, and perhaps the class, more time to give him this shitty project that he wants by tuesday cause this weekend wasnt really productive

thank you all for your concern though, it is pretty heartwarming

[Kosheh]

uhh, just to put into perspective

you see, the bar we went to see this concert at was 150m away from la belle équipe, but we kinda got lost on our way to it
we were walking down the rue de charonne -heading towards la belle équipe- but like 30-50m before getting there i noticed we had gotten too far and we turned around

for those who weren't glued to their televisions the whole time grabbing every last detail

"La belle équipe", a very popular bistro, was one of the attackers' targets. The attackers wore suicide bomb jackets and also had concealed firearms (like the storming of the concert hall); and they originally were trying to get seats in the restaurant to "dine in" and then wreak havoc as planned. however, it turns out that La belle équipe was filled to the maximum and they were unable to enter. So they went with Plan B: Open fire outside the restaurant (and the rest of the street) instead. Once they finished, they headed down the street to the Charrone station.

tl;dr Things could have actually been much, much worse, as La belle équipe was at max capacity. but I'm starting to think the people who organized this didn't have very well-thought out backup plans (see also: the stadium suicide bombings that resulted in...one civilian death total. As opposed to the completely full stadium)

I didn't find out until I spoke to Lexou that the bar he was at was literally adjacent to La belle équipe. In other words, Lexou was extremely close to the incident. I'm still like completely shocked.

Which, out of curiosity, Lexou - is France still in a state of emergency? Are the French borders still closed?
I seem to recall hearing that there were eight attackers tied to the attacks, but I can't remember if they said they were all apprehended/killed yet.

oh, also, news update:

I'm hoping the French government is able to narrow down who's behind this and deal with it accordingly. But yeah, man - my thoughts and prayers are going out to you and yours. :/

Currently, Daesh (which you guys might have heard them call themselves "Islamic State") took credit for the attacks. France's president since has said "We will be merciless in the fight against Daesh" so
might be a good ass kickin' or two in the Middle East. the only thing is, this is kind of a tough battle to fight as it's not a battle of strength and power, but rather, it's a battle of ideologies

[Lexou Duck]

ok lemme break out da map since y'all wanna get technical about this



so yeah, i was actually more like 5 minutes away from seeing the terrorists, but in the end it's not like i saw anything, i only heard gunshots
it is pretty chilling though knowing this is the place with the second biggest death count after the bataclan and it was damn close
so yeah kosh, the bar is not adjacent, but my orientation skills were leading me that way :/

and to answer your questions, 3 terrorists died at the stade de france, they tried to get in obviously but there were security checks on entry so they blew themselves up outside with few victims (though there are injured people, these are bombs that send nails were talking about )
so 3 there, 3 at the bataclan (though some say 4??), and 2 in a car going from place to place, all but one from that last team died
so they apparently found this was planned in belgium, brussels and some other city with a weird name and 6-7 arrests have been made there
and apparently french planes have started bombing raqqa so yeah

[Kosheh]

so they apparently found this was planned in belgium, brussels and some other city with a weird name and 6-7 arrests have been made there
and apparently french planes have started bombing raqqa so yeah

oh - nice. good that they're getting to the bottom of things. i mean, i don't wanna get into a full convo about like, how to actually fight daesh here but like
it's good that France is retaliating quickly and swiftly, though.  

oops! im ranting. hello i have an opinion but im not sure it fits here.
it's cool if the topic shifts this way - I mean, shit is happening and it wouldn't hurt for us all to talk about and weigh in on world events for once

though i feel like it's gonna be like


more physical force --> more terrorism done under governments' nose
more civilian deaths --> more bombings
more bombings --> higher chance of Syrian civilian deaths (they might deliberately bomb terrorist cells etc. but Daesh can always say "uh nope, you just bombed a bunch of women and children. way to go you immoral crusaders, you")
more "civilian" deaths --> more anti-West propoganda and Daesh's influence spreads, and calls for violence abroad

and the cycle repeats. :/ 
Like, you can't go to war on an idea (our last president said "We're declaring a war on terror" and then spent trillions of dollars getting revenge for his papa and didn't fix anything) and waging war against an ideology seems a bit draconian (Daesh is assuming they're finishing what the Crusades started - we don't want that idea to be realized, either) so it's like - we've gotta find a way to actually eradicate extremism in that area

We've gotta convince people that like, Daesh is dumb and stupid. We'd be better off making a reality show that pokes fun at their extremist beliefs but at the same time shows that not all Muslim people are extremists. It's hard to be afraid of a bully if you call him out in front of everyone 

[Lemonray]

but at the same time shows that not all Muslim people are extremists.

One big problem is that most people globally who would call themselves islamic, do have extremist mindsets, even if the level of dedication varies from person to person.

[psychospacecow]

Hey, can we close this thread? This conversation usually goes in a bad place pretty damn quickly.

[Gors]

I'll keep an eye on this thread, don't worry. Threads like these can be interesting to talk with as long as you all remain polite, calm and don't insult each other blindly.

Remember that trying to make such comments or hate speech of any kind will net you a severe punishment.

[Kosheh]

Hey, can we close this thread? This conversation usually goes in a bad place pretty damn quickly.

no, no, no it's fine - until we start making personal attacks, it's all good. The thread's been derailed - though it might be a good idea to separate the following discussion from Ray's post onward, and stick it in the Real Life forum.

but at the same time shows that not all Muslim people are extremists.

One big problem is that most people globally who would call themselves islamic, do have extremist mindsets, even if the level of dedication varies from person to person.

Uhhh now that's just nitpicking apart my post, lol (and not only that, that comes off as pretty racist)  
I'm not sure if you're using the wrong choice of words, or...what's going on here. Perhaps I should have stated "radical extremists", as Daesh definitely has more radicalized thoughts than your typical, peaceful mosque-visiting Muslim. You could easily say the same thing about Christians, Jews - any religious belief. I mean, a lot of Christians globally are some pretty wacky people - so you could even argue that we've got a lot of Christian extremists worldwide, too. But even most of those "extreme" Christians don't go out of their way to intentionally hurt others (except maybe the Westboro Baptist Church - and that's morally, not physically - but that's a topic for another time)


More or less, in 2015 when many countries allow you to freely practice your religion, there's nothing wrong with being a strong practicioner of one's faith per se - so long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of others (y'know - like killing others because your God said so. That's not cool)
In Syria, right now - Daesh is currently "practicing" a radicalized, Salafist version of Islam that promotes religious violence, and regards Muslims who don't agree with its interpretations (and everybody else, of course) as infidels. Daesh's goal, basically is to return the world to the Middle Ages - and practice what's basically early Islam. Like: imagine the fundamentalist Muslim governments that already existed in the Middle East. Except like fifty times more fundamentalist.
Fuck cars. Our faith and love of our fellow man is enough to get us around town. Oh, you have a daughter? She's beautiful - and she's my wife now. Age doesn't matter Though she's not pure in the eyes of MY God, so maybe I'll need to beat it into her. And y'know - I'm not really that into blue eyes after all. Hey, buddy I've got a great offer for ya - I'll give you my wife for that bottle of Pepsi you've got in your hand.

They...also believe in an impending apocalypse unless they fix it all.

Their main recruitment tool is basically "yo look at all this shit that happened recently. *points to recent events that line up with prophecies in the Quoran*
see this? we're on the path to getting majorly screwed. we're all screwed. you cant avoid that fact. except us. we're not as screwed because we talked to allah and he's like 'yo bro i got you but only you guys. not even other muslims because theyre not as xhardcorex as all yall'. join us and you wont be as screwed as you are when you're dead. plus we're gonna prevent The End from happening. in fact you'll get 72 virgins when you die as an early termination bonus"

That's...not the same Islam as what's practiced throughout the world. Most Muslim people aren't sold on the apocalyptic premise - and most Muslim people are actually fairly peaceful, nice people. Who yeah, maybe some are very strict about applying the teachings of the Quoran into their everyday life - but definitely don't take a militant view on the religion, partake in religious violence nor do they impress their beliefs on others.

[psychospacecow]

I'll keep an eye on this thread, don't worry. Threads like these can be interesting to talk with as long as you all remain polite, calm and don't insult each other blindly.

Remember that trying to make such comments or hate speech of any kind will net you a severe punishment.

That's good to know, not that I didn't expect it.

I just hate seeing how communities react when this stuff gets brought up. Living in Katy, I've met so many different people from around the world and never met anyone who fits the descriptions people give. I guess its just a perspective thing, having known people from Egypt, Libya, Israel, Qatar, and Jordan.

[~Axis~]

I dunno about you guys, but something about ISIS is not right. Of course, they're terrorists, which isn't right at all.

But something is just a bit "fishy". I feel like its connected to a lot of things, like the 9/11 incident.

Like some really bad, hidden, underground stuff...

[Lemonray]

that comes off as pretty racist

How? Race has nothing to do with it. Islam is a religious/political ideology, not a racial group.

Race = genetic.
Ideas = mimetic.

That's...not the same Islam as what's practiced throughout the world.

What most people don't seem to understand about this, is that "islam" is not defined by the collective beliefs, behaviours and practices of those who would call themselves muslims. Genuine islam is the original ideology created by Muhammed, and recorded in the quran. Most muslims are not adherents of genuine islam, in fact, some deviate wildly. This also applies to christians. But no, true islam is not a tolerant system. It is not a pacifist system. Muhammed had other hopes in mind when he created it- The fact that the very name means "Submission" should make this obvious.

Someone like, Osama, for example, is a better muslim than any "moderate". Muhammed himself, of course, is the greatest of them all. He is seen as an ideal man and definitive role model/servant of god by muslims across the globe.

Most Muslim people aren't sold on the apocalyptic premise

Belief in the "last day", as they call it, is actually mandatory according to the quran. Allah is the only one who knows the date, muslims just have to accept that it's coming, whenever it does. In the mean time, Muhammed's intention was for the believers to work on spreading the faith.

Anyway, regarding the extreme versus the non-extreme. Is it extreme for a muslim to want people legally punished for criticizing/satirizing islam, Allah, and Muhammed? Because that is a mainstream islamic opinion, even in the west, where most muslims want it criminalized. In fact, this is already a reality in some countries where the limited (for the time being) islamic influence has been able to push for speech restrictions. Admittedly, not without the help of enablers.

Within their own countries and communities, they of course have a greater ability to enforce their values on other people, including their own family members. Muslim communities aren't exactly known for being liberal, you know?

I dunno about you guys, but something about ISIS is not right. Of course, they're terrorists, which isn't right at all.

But something is just a bit "fishy". I feel like its connected to a lot of things, like the 9/11 incident.

Like some really bad, hidden, underground stuff...

It's probably nothing. You should just forget about it, if something was up our governments would surely tell us. Why would they not?

[Kosheh]

that comes off as pretty racist

How? Race has nothing to do with it. Islam is a religious/political ideology, not a racial group.

Race = genetic.
Ideas = mimetic.

these fat american sausage fingers of mine couldn't type in "racism but against religions" into google and making up my own word was kinda dumb ("you...THEOist!!!") so i just
said the first thing to come to mind that was close enough. lmao

I dunno about you guys, but something about ISIS is not right. Of course, they're terrorists, which isn't right at all.

But something is just a bit "fishy". I feel like its connected to a lot of things, like the 9/11 incident.

Like some really bad, hidden, underground stuff...

It's probably nothing. You should just forget about it, if something was up our governments would surely tell us. Why would they not?

Yeah I'm with Ray on this one. ISIS seems like a pretty ok guy. eh scare the general public and doesn't afraid of anything

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, BlueBlur

but Daesh is up to a bunch of no-good shit and is like, disregarding human life and violating shittons of war crimes left and right

[Helmo]

I love how often people claim criticizing Islam/Muslims is "racist".
That kind of comes off to me as "I view Muslims and middle eastern people as the same thing".

Everyone I see on Tumblr and Twitter keeps saying this dumb shit, "How would you feel if I assumed you were gonna shoot up a school because you're white"? race=/=religion

I get what you're trying to say, but when you do this it just invalidates the point you're trying to make.