Shit is happening

[TomGuycott]

Just so you know, the feeling that the next president of the United States ruining everything and ending the world has been a fear that whole generations have felt every single election.

The reality is that the president ends up doing an okay, mediocre or piss-poor job, people get unhappy, something bad happens somewhere that would have probably happened no matter who was president, and then the next election year rolls around and everyone panics again.


The point is that you shouldn't let yourself get TOO worked up or worried. Things will probably be fine. Mostly.

[DarkGrievous7145]

I sure hope so...

Thing is, though, no empire/country/nation in the world has actually thrived or survived very long with this going on, particularly the bad leadership part.

The kind of issues going on in the world, and America, alone, are pretty big, the kinds that affect all kinds of really negative change. Mixing-in incompetent or corrupted leaders/gov't is actually a perfect recipe for disaster. This is exactly what has brought many civilizations/countries to their end, re-defined their borders countless times, etc...

I cannot say for sure what will or what happen, but to just assume or blindly believe things absolutely will be ok, is in my opinion, quite foolish. The history books have quite a few examples of what happens when a nation gets to this state, it falls or splits. Usually, this is a pretty violent affair, costing the lives of not only government officials high and low, but also innocents. There's also a tendency to leave-behind some nasty scars that yield to at least one more nasty conflict later on.

I'm not saying what will happen, but I'm saying, looking at it from a logical, and I daresay, statistical standpoint, America is in a very poor shape, and slowly getting nowhere. Maybe not next year, but if things keep-up the way they are, it's more and more likely the whole country will collapse. It's clear there's already some major division between different factions/parties/whatever, here. The first question that comes to mind is not "will someone finally get really, really, really mad and start a riot/war?" it is, "When will it happen, who will be involved, and what price will be paid?"

I had more stuff to say, but honestly, I don't feel like saying it.

Whatever happens in the end, only time will tell...

[Maxpphire]

I should probably throw this out there but is anyone on VGR who would/actually vote for Trump?

Another question worth asking is "Would you vote for Trump if doing so meant voting against Hillary?".

Voting for Trump instead of Hillary if you don't get Sanders if like going to McDonalds for Chicken Nuggets, and finding out they no longer have nuggets and instead of deciding on anything else on the menu you decide to say fuck it and try eating 20 live scorpions instead.

It's a bad idea.

Hillary is shitty, but unlike Trump, at least no one will have to worry about their lives with her in power.

[miyabi95_]

This is my only response for this thread:

I wish I could support both Hilary and Sanders. They both have the agenda (that I support) of fairly running a country for ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS and not just a bunch of rich people with corporate greed.

I've been doing my best to stay out informing myself of these canditates to a point where I can say things with 100% confidence...But here's my deal with the whole situation.

Yes, maybe Hilary Clinton has been very sleazy as of recently. However, would I say that she's someone like Trump who is LITERALLY THREATENING THE WELL-BEING OF PEOPLE WHO ARE OF MEXICAN/MIDDLE-EASTERN DESCENT AND ACTING LIKE A CLASSROOM BULLY TOWARDS INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO WANT TO LIVE IN A SAFE HOME, HAVE A JOB, AND PAY TAXES?...Probably not. Then again, maybe sexist America isn't ready for a women to be president? Who knows. I will still vote for the Democrat because I look beyond physical appearance.

Republicans say they don't want to have a communist government (which has been proven to not work because humans are selfish, as shown by certain countries across the world)...So why did they nominate Trump, who's constantly been spewing word-vomit in order to make minorities feel like leaving the country? It's pretty scary, in my opinion.

On the bright side, I'm glad to see the increase in political participation of young Americans (even the protesters interrupting Trump's rallies). We're basically the building blocks of future governments.

I'm certain you guys are keeping this conversation peaceful and well-mannered, so I'm offering my input on the election shenanigans. It's all my opinion, so you don't have to listen to me.

[DarkGrievous7145]

warning: text wall

The way I see it, the parties are half the problem.

When either side has total control, bad things happen.

Realistically, improvements must be made with both parties working together, and forming compromises.
A lot of bills do not pass, or get anywhere close to it due to rivalry and the "well, I'm the ONLY person right here!" attitude of most of our senators and representatives. Same can be said of the president. This is why George Washington warned not to do it. Ofc, it only took a few presidents later for America to forget this.

Trump will make America more racist, and actually strengthen ISIS by pissing off more and more Muslims who otherwise have no valid reason to join their ranks. Just to name one issue

Clinton also could actually produce some unnecessary deaths. Her last office already has a fresh scandal, or a few. One of those is tied to some deaths. I distrust her. As for being a woman, I'll not say much of this, as I haven't really looked-up the facts for myself, but my mom says she's lost respect for her after the incident with her husband, and not standing up to him or something... Anyways, not much I can personally go on. I only recently (like, last few years) learned just how shitty this country basically is becoming, and how flawed our gov't truly is. As for the "Sexist America" thing, personally, I don't have an issue with a woman president, but same applies whether it's a man or a woman, they should be damn-well worthy of that. Many do not remotely believe Clinton can even be TRUSTED. They're probably right.

Sanders I know literally nothing about, so no comment.

Same for the other candidates.

To touch with the parties some more:
There are pros and cons to both Democrats and Republicans.
One definitely s more racist/elitist/greedy/sexist.
That same one also typically balances the budget (or at least tries) , protects the Bill of Rights (usually...), and does look at concerning issues.
The other wastes and gives-away a whole hell of a lot of money (that we cannot afford to give-away), and definitely leans towards communism. They also are more than willing to erode the Bill of Rights to, well... nothing, or at least, their actions tend to cause that. But then that same party does try to strive for equality and perhaps is open to newer ideas.

Where I stand:
according to a survey I took in my Gov't class:
"conservative liberal"
I'm ok with that, I suppose... really, though, I consider myself an independent

Why the republicans would pick Trump is simple, he represents their most extreme ideals. As my mom told me, "He's saying what everyone is thinking, yet no one is daring enough to say." This also ties back to my pain point, here, politics isn't about the parties, it's about EVERYONE. But, since both parties only strive for their own, well, doctrines, they put themselves, first. Also, last I checked, Trump has caused or is causing a divide in the Republican party. Another thing, too, is let's not forget the screwed-up ways by which voting actually works, here. In this case, republicans definitely are more concerned about the rich, and probably the white, or at least, those who cam here legally. Everyone else is second-class, in their eyes. At least, for most.

However, the democrats basically reverse-discriminate, in a sense. They're concerned about equality, so they say. The problem is they're willing to give the minorities, particularly the illegals and refugees some very exclusive freedoms and benefits that no one else has. They also don't seem very concerned about the ever-growing national debt. Due to the insane amount of money they put into entitlement programs, schools and research, two name two big ones, are waaaaaaaay behind, both in performance and funds. Unless you're a hard-working, tax-paying citizen, you can get basically everything for free, and you don't need to make any effort towards anything but freeloading. This is why the republicans are PISSED about immigration and bilingual ed. The refugees are a security threat, also, but... I sincerely doubt they're actually all bad. However, there should be some careful consideration with who we let in. Not that I'm saying I support rounding 'em all up and shipping them to Guantanamo Bay for interrogations and crap, cuz that only breeds hatred in their hearts. Still, the refugees can be a danger if someone does sneak in amongsth their ranks. (which probably does happen)The immigrants should have to prove their worth, here, at least, and they should be mandated to learn English. Few countries would allow you to cross their border with intentions to live there, and not learn the native tongue. Ofc, the immigration policies as a whole, need to change.

Another thing, too:
America is not caring for her own that are living shitty lives, because others are taking priority. Sad what's happening in Africa, yes... But we have men, kids, women, and children, who are starving, mistreated, abused, homeless, impoverished, sick, etc... and they're not being cared for much, if at all.

I'm off now, sorry for the long probably mostly ramble-y post, but I absolutely could not find a clear and concise way to explain this one, and I still omitted quite a few details, even then.

[Kosheh]

Then again, maybe sexist America isn't ready for a women to be president? Who knows. I will still vote for the Democrat because I look beyond physical appearance.

It's funny though because as much as I'm thrilled about the idea about America having its first female president, that candidate's already proved several times that she's too flippity-floppity over her ideas and that she's literally a mouthpiece of the big businesses supporting her

I mean that's basically what politicians do but she's like the poster child for the politician stereotype. It's nothing to do with her biological sex, which makes this whole situation a real bummer...at least for me.

---

 

At the same time though, I'm starting to wonder - like Trump is obviously talking all this shit to pander to a really large demographic, and his penchant for doing so ensures he stays in the headlines. What if like, the worst case scenario happens and he gets elected - but like he suddenly 180's on all of his extreme viewpoints, mostly due to the system of checks and balances in the White House not enabling him to do anything that he's proposed (building a wall, deporting people based on religion, etc.) and he basically turns into Obama 2

Like what if the people who matter are voting for Trump because they know that he'll make a great figurehead of a president

[Maxpphire]

However, would I say that she's someone like Trump who is LITERALLY THREATENING THE WELL-BEING OF PEOPLE WHO ARE OF MEXICAN/MIDDLE-EASTERN DESCENT AND ACTING LIKE A CLASSROOM BULLY TOWARDS INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO WANT TO LIVE IN A SAFE HOME, HAVE A JOB, AND PAY TAXES?

She would lose so much Congress support that wouldn't happen.

She is a democrat, in a sense living in her (Ex?)Husband's shadow. I think at worst she is gonna try and fail of trying to surpass her Husband as someone that everyone loved, which is why I think she has been so flippy floppy. A lot of her actions at least point to that, I don't think she'd do much in the terms of alienating her party

That being said, I'm going for Bernie all the way, regardless if he becomes democrat or independent.

[AkumaTh]

Sadly my sisters and mother are Trump supporters. Good thing we live in New York where the Democratic votes outnumber the Republican in the past few elections.

[psychospacecow]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-...terrorism/
see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi

[DarkGrievous7145]

An...interesting article

So, who wants to go get an underground bunker with top-notch security and a massive stash of weapons and ammunition?

The conspiracy theorists sound less and less insane with each passing day, it seems.

I'm gonna go play some games now, then watch my anime, and hopefully not be reminded my country is becoming a police state.

[psychospacecow]

I hope none of y'all are in Dallas right now. Some wastes of space were shooting cops during a BLA protest. I'm not going to post statistics or anything because it literally just ended and I don't think anyone really knows the details yet. Stay safe.

https://www.reddit.com/live/x7xfgo3k9jp7

It appears I was wrong. Its still going on at the moment.

[Lemonray]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/09/scienc...robot.html

[Kriven]

Can't they give the robot some kind of knockout gas instead of a bomb...?

[PatientZero]

The conspiracy theorists sound less and less insane with each passing day, it seems.

It's funny actually, I used to run in conspiracy circles a few years back, there's always been the fringe elements to it like the fake moon landing guys or Illuminati chasers, they're good to poke fun at and they draw attention for it, but everything I was following was a bit more down to earth and rational. We were talking about things like UAV's, facial recognition systems, wiretaps, even war crime coverups, I basically stopped being part of the conspiracy theory scene where all the stuff we were chasing stopped being theories and started being headlines.

I only bring that up because I've been specifically asked by a few people what my take is on the Dallas situation, from me what it boils down to is that it does have some hallmarks of a false-flag operation, pretty much along the lines of what happened before with the Black Panthers, but if that is the case it's a lot of trouble to go to with no real reason for it.
Fact is that the general public already vilifies BLM and sees the police as the good guys, even without overt acts of violence people see it as threatening and violent by default. From what I've seen and read I feel comfortable enough saying that the shooter is not just your Average Joe off the streets, hence the potential grey areas where conspiracy theorists like to jump the gun, maybe the guy was a plant, maybe he's just an avid gun nut, but again that doesn't really change the situation.

What we will definitely see, regardless, is a huge amount of spin and scrambling to garner more support for the uniforms and more animosity towards the protestors, bullets in cops galvanizes the population more than bullets in civilians, because hey, they're the good guys.
I'm kind of concerned about the use of a bomb disposal robot to take out the gunman, it's not an entirely unexpected precedent, but it's not a comfortable one to see. As the article already posted says, that's a tactic closer to warfare than law enforcement, it's excessive force and it wasn't intended to simply apprehend, and it worked. I can already see this being used as justification to give law enforcement access to armed drones and other remote defense systems, and with enough public outcry over dead cops and enough fear over terrorism, I can't imagine it being a hard sell.

[Lemonray]

Can't they give the robot some kind of knockout gas instead of a bomb...?

Not impossible but not practical. It would have to be potent enough to almost instantly put him under so he couldn't just kill himself. And even if gas this potent were readily available you would need a good delivery method. Certain masks would also render the gas useless and there's also the chance that the guy won't wake up at all after being knocked out.