rev up the sonic cycle: Sonic Mania

[miyabi95_]

someone brought up a good point: everyone's been dissing sonic forces cuz of the new villain, yet every other villain that showed up in the trailer is from a sonic game that has a really edgy and dramatic plot...like...aren't edgy and dramatic stories the charms of most modern sonic games? sega shouldn't be embarrassed about having "badass edgelord" characters anymore

i really dig what they've been working on so far

[Goemar]

The whole games seems to be aimed at the deviant-art Sonic fans to be fair...

[miyabi95_]

exactly, so that's probably their main audience! lol and tbh i think the classic sonic thing was thrown in just to appeal to the typical anti-modern sonic players xD

[Goemar]

I get Sonic Mania, the NGC generation gets this. I'm cool with that. Just, don't make Sonic Mania a one off...

[Hiro-sofT]

Am I the only one who thinks that the main villain looks like a lame cross between Black Doom and Mephiles?

I mean, Mephiles did disorder and travel through time (which seems to happen in Forces yet again), he looks like an evil hedgehog (which Mephiles also did). He has only one eye, which looks like the Doom's Eye from Black Doom, a character, that turned Shadow against the hero Sonic. What did we saw in the trailer? Old characters, that seem to be turned evil by the main villain (even Shadow is here, too)? Wow, how original... even the surroundings during his reveal look like a Sonic06/Shadow bland, destroyed city stage.

The last thing missing is that this guy is called Mephiles the Black Doomed Eye Eedgehog or something ...


Still waiting for Sonic Mania, which I'm still hyped for (which happens not so often today).

[Kriven]

I think it's important to keep in mind, when complaining about a rehashed idea, that the ideas you're complaining about being reused are from 11 and 12 years ago. This new game, covering the same ground, it's because there's a whole new audience of kids who didn't experience it the first time around.

[Hiro-sofT]

Well, I would understand it, if it would be good stuff, they reuse. But Black Doom and Mephiles were both from bad games and they are both bad characters. Mephiles was like a masterbrain character with a plan, just to become a dumb monster to have "power" and heck Black Doom was even worse, as his only plan seemed to be to use Shadow as his servant, since he is unable to do anything on his own.

Reusing clearly bad stuff (most people in the internet seem to agree that both, Shadow and 06 were bad) after like 10 years sounds for me like this:
"Too bad, you didn't like our stuff from 10 years back before. Instead of improving and learning from our mistakes, let's see, if the next generation of kids like our gabarge."

[Goemar]

I have no idea what the hell you're on about. I honestly have never heard of these villains. Maybe like me, Sega reckons most people don't give a flying crap about those characters or what games they're from...

[Hiro-sofT]

Maybe like me, Sega reckons most people don't give a flying crap about those characters or what games they're from...

When Sega really does it like that, then they will get a lot of problems...

If you do some research about 06 or Shadow, you will see a lot of people actually saying that those games, compared to many other games Sonic had, where very bad (and that for a lot of good reasons).

Maybe I'm wrong and this character will be "totally awesome", but I have learned that Sonic characters these days are nothing but cardboard figures with bad puns attached onto them or a copy of an already established character (which is not better than the cardboard by any means). I hope, they only choose the design for this guy from these two characters and not their personalities. That design still looks so boring to me, since it's edgy evil hedgehog for... the whatever time again?

Yes, I get it, the next gen can enjoy that as well like it would be new, but I don't really get it, why you would reuse stuff what made your game from the past bad, rather than using something good instead? It's okay to use stuff again you used before, but making an game reuse stuff from a game with a bad reputation is a risky move, since people, who experienced or heard about said games, will connect here the reused design with said game (which I do).

It can be done right (Crisis City in Generations for example) but since we are talking about character design and story here (which, let's be honest, was never new gen Sonics highpoint), I'm afraid this character will be either a Black Doom/Mephiles rip-off (which are two bad characters to rip off from to begin with), a cardboard bad guy ("I destroy world because I'm evil") or a Shadow/Metal anti-hero clone of some sort.

sigh... is it too much to ask for a "normal" story here? I really hope, it will get a "regular", not that poor story, instead of the wacky'n'unfunny stories with cardboard characters doing nothing here other than getting dunked on by Sonic and his bad puns. Maybe I will be proven wrong and the story will be awesome, but since Heros, the stories were either too weird and complex (06, Shadow) or just plain dumbed down to parody level (with Colors and Generations being the highpoint of this).

Even if people are saying now again "it's all about gameplay"... yes, gameplay is the most needed aspect of a game, but that doesn't mean that the story has to be bad. Excusing a bad story with a pleasant gameplay is not a good move, since a good story can improve your game experience and makes more people enjoy your stuff you have been working on, rather than skipping through them, which means, you have wasted time you could have use elsewhere in the development of the game.


And that's why I like Mania so much more... there is no real story here yet (well, at least not now that I'm aware of), but at least, the team concentrates on making fun and enjoyable gameplay, rather than on cutscenes and characters no one cares about in the end, because they are executed badly. I'm sure, Manias story will be no blockbuster too, but at least, it will get more enjoyable to play than the cardboard joke fest new gen Sonics had (and from the looks of it, Forces goes probably into the same direction as the other new gen Sonics).

[Kriven]

The people calling those games bad are the adults, the older kids, the fifteen and up crowd. Ten year olds eat that up. Guess who Sega is marketing towards.

[Goemar]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. It's obvious who Sega is going after here, and that's the people who think Silver was super cool and hope Shadow drives a car again etc.

It's fully embracing the awfulness of modern Sonic for those with poor taste.

[Hiro-sofT]

Ahh... the good old "it's for kids" excuse...
 
Because I'm a adult (and some other people as well from the fanbase), does it mean we should not enjoy a good story too? What kinda sense makes that? "Oh no, we are only targeting kiddies, which we think are so dumb, they will never get something from the story, so let's make the story sooo bad that adults facepalm themselves while the dumb kids still can enjoy the game." (which makes no sense at all).
 
"This game should be only enjoyed by kids, you adults have to suffer, because we don't want that you buy our game and have fun with it."
 
Making a story bad because it's for kids is not only a dumb move and a mistake to lose your established fanbase (which, oh wonder, grows up), but it's as well an insult to the younger audience right here (they're too dumb to get it, let's make it bad). A lot of gamers are 20-30 years old nowadays, but the "it's for kids" excuse is still used every time when a story is bad.

That's not a clever move at all. It’s like saying "sorry, we have no interest to spend brain and money resources into a better story, because we need the profit as fast as possible with the lowest effort we can do", or "we don't want to do it because our formula worked until now". But they have to realize that the jar only goes as much to the well, as long as it not breaks. After some time, it will break, and it will only be a matter of time when that will happen to SEGAs new gen Sonic…

[MoneyMan]

Honestly i wouldnt be surprised if the game lampoons how edgy its villians are. It's definately a self aware game w/ the "make a sonic oc" part.

[Goemar]

Erm... when did people play Sonic for story? Maybe you didn't notice, because you were a kid at the time, but EVERY Sonic story kinda sucks. Like, no on plays MegaMan for the story. If you want story, play Last of Us or well - anything else. Hell, even CoD has a better story.

This game is about looking flashy and cool - like every 3D Sonic game has ever been.

Welcome to getting old...

---

As for the jar thing. Nah. It's Power Rangers syndrome. It'll do the same thing over and over again but slightly 'cooler' for years and years.

When you realise, you'll stop at a certain generation and be sad you're no longer apart of it. But they won't change for you - as all the new kids will love it. So, well, there...

[Hiro-sofT]

I know that nobody plays Sonic for the story really (like Megaman and co.), but the story is so bad, it kinda scares you, since it's feeling more like a parody of a series you like before as a kid, rather than the series you remember.

At least Megaman and the other games mentioned are taking their world seriously and are not mocking them. You have occasionally here or there a little slip with a character that says "it's a videogame folks" or "world ends but let's make a joke while I can", but still, for the most part, you have a normal story, no blockbuster but still a story that can be called one and not this clowns fest in which Sonic keeps stating the obvious, he explains every bad joke in the most bland way possible and anything around him just goes with it, as he would be the coolest thing on earth, while he is directly mocking them during that.

but EVERY Sonic story kinda sucks.

Again, at least the story in the adventure games could be taken seriously. People didn't mock their own universe in it, villains were a real threat and each character had their own goals and better personalities, rather than being just cardboard. People are calling me probably again an adventure fanboy, but the problem here is, which sonic story was better here? Unleashed? Heros? 06? None of these were better in the slightest.

Heck, even the classic stories were better than most modern stories, despite having almost no story at all. But that's the catch. The classics concentrated on only the important story bits. "This guy bad, he does that, you encounter that guy, he seems bad, go and stop him" is way better than "Hehheehe baldy MC. Nosehair build again a robot that will turn against him that sucker. Mee teh best and I will always stop him, because that's how it will always be and how this game is".

If you want story, play Last of Us or well - anything else.

No, again. It's not that I want a blockbuster story or anything and I also don't play Sonic only for the story (that would be hell). I just want a story which I can endure and not have to hide in shame constantly (and I seem not to be the only one here) and characters would actually act believable. Telling me to play other games while staying to that concept will make them lose me at some point. A game can be sooo good, but if its story causes a headache to me, then I will think twice before getting into this torture.

I mean, why are people playing fantasy RPGs while others only play RPGs with sci-fi elements, even if both game are the same in terms of gameplay? Because of their setting, world, stories and characters. This is not only the case in RPGs. Plattformer, Action Adventure, even Puzzle games. There are so many similar Jump’n’Runs out there, but not everybody plays every single one of them, if the person has no interest in the games world and characters.

Just imagine, that one of your most favorite game universes is turned upside down and made into a parody, but is still part of the main series and this is now how the series will be… forever! This is what the new gen Sonic games are feeling to me like now (with new gen I mean anything after Heros, even though Heros started it all).

This game is about looking flashy and cool - like every 3D Sonic game has ever been.

Also this is wrong. Again, people will call me out on this, but even if the two adventure games were cheesy (especially Sonic), at least every character was aware of themselves, their world and what consequences their actions would have. While Adventure had here and there a stupid moral teaching that didn't make much sense ("don't stop following your dreams" - Amy), the characters and everything else was feeling like an alternative universe or world that could exist and not like a sitcom, a fake show or "videogame".

Sonic was always about the cool, but the way he was cool back then was not because he was a overpowered character that was making bad puns, but more about that he was like big bro to his friends and even to strangers, with which he became friends later and that he did everything to help people out of danger, while trying to stay "cool" in those dangerous, life risky situations (even if you could clearly see that he was not always staying cool everytime).

It was not only for the cool factor, but also it did make him more human than he is now. Now, he looks like a jerk that is only saving the world in order to impress his cardboard friends, which is the direct opposite of being "cool".