This thread needs to be deleted.

[Aquarius]

An argument has started on this thread, which is not the purpose of it, so I am removing everything that I can remove until the thread can be deleted.

So to anyone with administrative privileges, please delete this thread, as it has completely degraded. Thank you.

[Garamonde]

Moved thread to the appropriate place.

Also, there are no sprites to see...

[DioShiba]

Gonna chime in on this as a casual lurker.

If I were a newbie who knew a thing or two, then I would say that I am more interested in the edits of the R-Types than I am your sprite comics, although I don't know if I would be impressed by a full sheet I would probably at least want to see you do that over doing things that anyone can easily put together in your position.

But if you want advice on comics and writing, and I'm saying this because I know it's easy to get ambitious right off the bat and make comics without knowing the skills and tips that most creatives need to make something of quality. That isn't going to come easily. In cases of fan works its almost often impossible to have something stand out unless they KNOW the characters they are using through extensive study and not just casually playing their game. My advice if web comics are really the path you want to then you might be better off coming up with your own ideas, developing your own characters instead of following a trend, and you can't just dive in that head first.

That bit has little to do with actual pixel art critique in of itself, but until you are certain that you've gotten the right skills to make any sort of comic regardless of what medium you're doing them in I would avoid diving into that realm personally.

With my piece said, more sprites or pixel art on its own, less comics.

[DioShiba]

I generally don't work on those anyway unless I think I CAN. Also, I am very, very, very, very (That's four veries because four is death) bad at writing introductions because I usually just want to get on with things, introducing how everything will work as fast as I can. I actually did do a 'pixel art comic' as a collaboration, but I don't post that comic here most of the time and I'm not going to plug it, partly because it's on temporary hiatus, but it is one of the few times I managed to get an introduction to work; I suck at writing introductions otherwise.

Also, I use MSPaint, and any image editor where you can't edit the text after you put it in makes writing dialogue incredibly annoying. Another reason I tend to make 'smooth' introductions too fast-paced.

With respect, this is entirely missing the point that I'm trying to get at with my criticism on your web comics.

My critique on the comics have very little to do with the introductions and more to do with making them in general. I'm not saying anything in particular about them besides the fact anyone can make a web comic in the way you are doing it, a lot of people do.

I'm not saying that you can't make them, but if you are serious about pursuing that consider looking at any comic besides a sprite comic and try to study how comics are made in a professional sense and do what you can learn from either web comics like Octopus Pie, or graphic novels like Scott Pilgrim. Or just pick up a Batman comic. Then muster whatever originality you can come up with then you can make your own. You can still use pixel art too to make a comic.

On that latter sentence, an example from pixel joint by user iSTVAN:


I bring this up because, even though this is animated it doesn't break the rules of composition in each panel and page, alot of attention was given to each panel using pixel art as a medium and keeps some illustrative liberties while still being pleasing to the eye. The text is legible even at it's size and the speech bubbles help give a clearer sense of what the dialogue is. Also the writing of the joke here is actually clever in the sense that it doesn't explain everything to the reader (in fact, that brings me to a point that introduction comics always risk going more into exposition, if I'm reading a comic I'm going to hope that the writer knows I'm smart enough to understand certain concepts that I don't need to have someone explain something to me. With that said, and any good writer will tell you this but exposition in general is a no-no.)

Those are qualities in this work that make it not just a successful work of pixel art but a comic as well. It takes a lot of work and practice to get to that point though, and I'm not throwing this here to discourage you by any means what I am saying is that you could work your way up to doing something like this as opposed to doing sprite comics with random sprites put together that literally everyone does.

Editing is actually my forte, and that's not something I would say I share with a lot of people. I actually have a ton of edits, but I usually don't make sheets, and that's why I don't often put sprites on here. I'm probably going to make a full sheet of the R-7 for two reasons:

A: You actually (seem to) like something I do. (Referring to the R-7.) I don't oversell myself so I mostly rely on what others think and whether or not it resonates with me. The fact that you prefer even that one preview of the R-7 over the older thinks higher up resonates with me; I feel I could have done far better. I'll be putting up more edits for now, mostly.

B: Again, I also like the R-7 sprite better, and the R-7 is pretty much my favorite R-craft. I most often make things for my own enjoyment, and share them or show them off for the purpose of spreading that joy to others.


At the very least, thank you for actually coming across something I made. I'm surprised anyone looks at what I make.

Well, the thing is a lot of people can edit or recolor. While I would usually suggest to avoid editing if you really want to get better at making sprites, but here the R-7 sprites are something that I think is more interesting than the sprite comics per say not because I think its a good sprite, but it at least shows that you can put in the work into making something look decent.

I think it would benefit you to make a sheet out of it not because I think it will make you a better spriter necessarily, but I think it's always good to practice organizing things and getting a good sense of where to place things in that sense (I haven't necessarily sheeted many sprites either, in fact it's been some time since I worked with pixel art in animation far as sheeting things go.)

What I will say is that with the sprite in front of the ship with the fireball in the center I'm not sure if I like how the fire is banded, while I can get why it's pillowed I think there are better ways of disguising that at that size you're working with.

To say whether or not the edits will be good however, will depend. I don't really have enough to go on to say whether or not it will be a sheet that's accepted and that comes down to just showing the work on here and getting the feedback you need to get it to a place that you will want it to go or a place where you may not like it and have to throw the piece away.

But moving to another point moving away from editing, this kind of goes into what I say to everyone who does edits or recolors (and I often keep saying this because I think that encouraging people to grow, whether they're spriting for fun or making art professionally the growth mindset is a good thing):

If you want to become better at spriting, then I would tell you from my experiences that now would probably be the time to expand your skillset because it sounds like you really want to achieve more with the work you do. That is good but it's not gonna happen overnight just by editing pre-made sprites alone. Daunting as it may sound, make something from nothing, start from scratch, relax, let a bit of the creative juices flow and do something completely new that no one hasn't seen.

To you specifically, consider looking into getting the software Graphics Gale. It's freeware at this point and while I know that one could argue that the tools don't make the artist, I would recommend this program to you strongly because I think it can give you the proper flexibility without getting overboard with the shit ton of features Photoshop has, and you won't constantly have to be limited to the tools and palettes that microsoft paint has. Also don't just limit yourself to just pixel art, also consider using traditional mediums like pencil or paint and consider picking up on a few art classes.

Skills such as writing can also be honed, but you would have to seek critique on writing elsewhere to get it to where you want it to go because I doubt that you'll find much of it in a pixel art board. I will say though because creative writing is my current minor to go with my animation BFA in art school: consider reading more than just sprite comics and pick up on some books. Practice visualizing what you read.

Also, while there isn't a need to thank me for taking an interest in the thread I'd figure that my insight might actually be of use to you. I know that some of this may sound harsh but it's better to hear some of these things now before your interest in creative land on the visual side dies out later on by not hearing it if you strive on being a better artist/writer/creative. I hope that this post will give you the sense of direction you need to work on stuff that you will be more happy with in the long run because it seems like you want to be doing stuff like this.

[DioShiba]

Yes, but if you read the post instead of just giving a one sentence response you would have noticed that I said whether or not you're doing this professionally you can still get into a growth mindset.

Point being, you can still improve on being a better artist and still do it for fun. It's your call how you choose to interpret what I say but I'm not going to drag this into a debate where it needn't be one.

[DioShiba]

Look, I don't really get why you posted that if you don't intend to debate.

But I can tell you I dealt with half the things that you just posted. Including depression and all that so please, don't pull that card on me if you think that I don't know what you're pulling with that. Not that I don't sympathize with you, but I think you're being far too defensive to really take in what I have to say. (and really, this is what I actually mean by taking the debate where it doesn't need to go, believe me, I used to be like you and with respect bringing up your personal problems does not help you in any way.)

If you seriously believe that my criticism is destructive, then I'm afraid that we'll have to agree to disagree (and believe me, I've been in your position before and I've also been able to know where arguing like you just did is going to get you, I have a pretty good sense on what actually is destructive and constructive because you're not the first user who I've had this kind of discussion with [Edit: I've also been in the same boat, many other people who were here have passed on similar wisdom too.]). I fail to see where the points are destructive in any way shape or form. Your thread was moved here for a few reasons but I can tell you one truth that I neglected to mention before hand is that sprite comics are likely not going to be accepted on TVGR since, to my knowledge that isn't really a thing any one has done on this site for a long time now. (not since the split up between TSR and Fireball20x over 100 years ago.)

Your thread is not in the submission boards, its under a creativity board. I'm not saying that you're a bad person for disagreeing but if your thread is here then you will get what people feel is the most honest advice they can give you. I can respect that you're doing it for fun, but that doesn't necessarily negate any of the points or criticisms that I mentioned, Some may share the same points that I have and others may disagree and give you their two cents.

With respect, don't take things to personally. That's all I have to say in regards to that.

[Aquarius]

I take everything personally.
Also, again, I only did this FOR MY OWN ENJOYMENT, and only posted it here for others to enjoy.
And the moment I was foolish enough to reply to you, an argument had already started, so I have been forced to remove all of my own posts on this thread and ask it to be deleted so that I may start over and get the the actual POINT of putting up my sprites.

And I forgot to mention that I am suicidal.

[Kosheh]

Uhhhh...sorry to hear that you've got it tough atm, but that's not...really an excuse to shut down a discussion because you're tired of reading DioShiba's paragraphs of suggestions. Which...isn't really "destructive criticism", either - destructive criticism would be saying "This sucks" and not saying anything as to why it sucks - Dio's intention wasn't to belittle you or to make you feel inferior he just was trying to make suggestions as to what could be improved.

But uhm I guess I'll lock the thread as that's what you requested as you don't seem to want to continue any discussion further whatsoever here, so