Character Tweaks [revamped first post!]

[Chaoxys]

The Gust Jar grab seems rather odd honestly. I'd like to make my suggestion of the Grapple Hook for the grab.

Thats what it already is. We are trying to change it up a bit since it's pretty much the same as normal Link's grab as is.

[Wes]

In Brawl it's the Hookshot from WW. The Grappling Hook is the grey claw with a rope.

[Chaoxys]

In Brawl it's the Hookshot from WW. The Grappling Hook is the grey claw with a rope.

I figured he meant it'd work in the same fashion.



Also, I've got a few ideas for a FS.
Megelixer- He drinks Grandma's soup and uses the magic shield. It's a fun little combo I like to use that makes you super strong and invincible.

Pirate Storm- Tetra's ship appears in the BG and luanches barrels at the stage. They burst open and her pirate crew flies out and fights along side you for a while.

Phantom Zelda- Zelda in a Phantom body falls onto stage and sits Link on her shoulder. The player then takes control of her for a while.

[TomGuycott]

Jumping back to Ganondorf a second:

I personally wouldn't mind Down Special drawing the sword, seeing as a lot of characters have move changes that are involved with their Down B attacks. I personally think it shouldn't effect his other Specials though by drawing it, just his standard attacks. But that's just me.

If we were to give his moveset a complete overhaul to make it as Falcon-less as possible, I have some other suggestions for his specials that took me a while to come up with:

Up Special: Video Link. Go to 40, he does it twice. I thought about this OoT attack that he uses, where he charges up energy over his head. I was thinking that maybe his move can be like it was in Brawl, but instead of it being a grab move, maybe at the top of the floating upward he could charge energy over his head kinda like that and do damage with it. He doesn't have to shoot it, it'd be more like he was shooting energy over his head.


Side Special: Maybe this could be the projectile move that Koopaul suggested, or maybe that move could be his Neutral special, and this one could have him shoot a bat made out of fire (one that doesn't travel as far as a regular projectile). The fire bat idea is from his battle in A Link to the Past, but he was pig Ganon there. Another side special suggestion would be him still rushing forward, but instead of with his hand, with his pig Ganon Trident. Again, there's the issue of the fact that only pig Ganon used that.

[Bazzoka]

I figured he meant it'd work in the same fashion.

But... every tether grab has worked like that, nothing different besides the vary ranges for each character and lag time. Why change it when it doesn't need to be?

[Gold]

Phantom Zelda- Zelda in a Phantom body falls onto stage and sits Link on her shoulder. The player then takes control of her for a while.

I like this except that when carrying Link Zelda goes really slow and can't do anything.

[Chaoxys]

Phantom Zelda- Zelda in a Phantom body falls onto stage and sits Link on her shoulder. The player then takes control of her for a while.

I like this except that when carrying Link Zelda goes really slow and can't do anything.

I should have clarified on that. In my head, I pictured Link sitting in her shoulder or something. I had forgotten that she can't do anything when she carrying him in game.

But... every tether grab has worked like that, nothing different besides the vary ranges for each character and lag time. Why change it when it doesn't need to be?

To make him less like normal Link and give him a more original moveset.

[HyperSonic92]

Pirate Storm- Tetra's ship appears in the BG and luanches barrels at the stage. They burst open and her pirate crew flies out and fights along side you for a while.

I like this one. Especially it's a good way for Tetra to be in the game somehow.

Also I made a new moveset:
B = Whirlwind
B> = Sword Spin
^B = Roc's Cape (or whatever it's called)
BV = Bombchu

[Bazzoka]

To make him less like normal Link and give him a more original moveset.

He can still have a tether grab and be totally different. There's the whole specials we have going on, plus FS, plus A moves, plus possibly throws. I don't see why he can't keep his tether grab. It's like if we were looking at 64 and were making a fangame back then and tried switching Luigi's grab to give him a more original moveset. Bad example, I know but you my point.

[Ton]

I thought Four Swords was his FS?

[Chaoxys]

I thought Four Swords was his FS?

Oh, okay, I wasn't aware of that, sorry.

[supportbros]

@Ness: NO STARSTORM. That was a cheap move pulled by Sakurai and team. Give him PK Rockin; it's his signature move in EarthBound, and I'm sure many EB-MOTHER fans would agree to see that over Starstorm any day (even if he can learn it).

As for @Lucas, I think Starstorm is fine for him (though, perhaps his B move could be changed to PK Love instead). I feel Starstorm is a nice reference to Kumatora.

@Mario: I like the F.L.U.D.D. alternate moveset idea... but... isn't F.L.U.D.D. becoming a bit old-fashioned? In the sense that it's reception... wasn't really much an approval from Mario fans; many now prefer that it be changed to a kind of Mario Galaxy Tornado or something, but again, that was before the whole proper use of F.L.U.D.D. concept.

@Luigi: A Luigi's Mansion referenced-intro would be great. Makes sense as well.

@Peach: Parry was just what I had in mind as well, same for the whole Emotion concept. Goes to show how much potential she COULD have had... in Brawl, at least.

@Ganondorf: Give him a sword? Haha. Some say there are too many swordsmen in the series already, and that may be true (they're a majority next to the common fist fighters; there are technically 11 swordsmen in this roster alone)... Perhaps have him holding a sword for specific moves? Kind of like Zero Suit Samus and her whip; it's not all over her moveset, but instead on specific moves she uses.

@Toon Link: I think people have him covered. (Also, I could see his Final Smash being the Phantom Hourglass, where he literally freezes the battlefield, allowing him multiple hits on opponent(s); the opponent does not go flying off until the FS wears off. Catch for Toon Link, though, is that if they're in invincible frames [i.e. grabbing ledge, air dodge], Toon Link is out of luck trying to hurt them. FS lasts depending on TL's percent; if it's high [100%+] only goes for 5 seconds; if 0% or around, could last for a max of 10, but only if at 0%; 1% would be 9, and the numbers dwindle eventually somewhere.)

@Mewtwo: This was something I really wanted to see when I saw he was in Melee... Give Mewtwo his Barrier as his shield from Pokemon the First Movie. You know, the blue one. While it wouldn't really have any difference than a normal shield (just a bluer tint), perhaps it can reflect projectiles easier upon what is called "power shielding"? In a sense, he'd be the easiest character to "power shield" with, anyway. Throw a bomb at him, shield a little bit before the object hits Mewtwo, he'll reflect it easily. (Naturally, the reflection effect only lasts for a brief moment upon executing the shield.) Just a thought.

@Roy/Marth: Most people said the moveset Roy had in Melee (the clone moveset of Marth) was actually more true to his style than Marth. Marth is all about stabbing (i.e. his truer-to-form B-move in Brawl), whereas Roy is all about slashing. He seems fine to me... but then that would mean Marth would need tweaking instead. Again, that's just what I've heard.

@Yoshi: Tongue tether = love. That was something I was looking forward to in Brawl. Instead we got a bunch of annoying squeaky moves.

@Jigglypuff: With Sing, I could see that if an opponent is directly affected by it midair, that they are left stunned (as in, whatever move they were trying to use is canceled), and they topple to the ground asleep (of course, they can wake up midair also, but it depends on how much % they have, much like if they were asleep on the ground anyway). If anyone's ever played Melee and used Mewtwo, if you've ever used Mewtwo's Disable on a person in the air, sometimes it simply cancels their move animations and sends them into a spiral downwards. I feel Jiggs' Sing should have this similar effect.

@Sonic: His Side-B should definitely be tossing rings. No one is safe unless they have a projectile these days; I could easily see Sonic throwing around rings, being executed like he's tossing a Trophy Stand in Subspace Emissary.

@DK: Grounding his opponents... How about if they're right under his hands when he's using the move? If they're behind him or further away in front of him, they're sent flying up... but if directly under his attack, they're grounded? I think that would make sense. Also, he should use some kind of similar slapping-hand attack midair, too; perhaps acting like a Meteor Smash? He's one of the few with a move he can use on the ground, but not in the air (the other only being Peach, I believe).

@Meta Knight: I feel his moveset would have been proper had he been in Melee (as it was going to be, Brawl = Melee 2.0 with online), but since Brawl was all about the slower, more casual style, SLOW THAT SUCKER DOWN. I don't know why he was kept the way he was.

~~

Since I assume we're also covering the characters for the Project, might as well give my input in now... but I swear, if we're only talking about prior Smashers, I'll-

@Gooey: Just give him the ability to absorb people's... abilities... with his tongue, a la Kirby, only he doesn't change as drastically (not being given his opponent's accessories and whatnot; I don't think he did that ALL the time in Dream Land 3... he just shifted forms sometimes to suit the moves, like turning into a spiked ball or a rock, but didn't have anything to show he WAS holding the ability, unlike Kirby who wears hats or jewelry or something similar). FS should definitely be the Dark Matter Gooey form, though, that thing is BEAST (can fly around like a Metroid, making him difficult to hit, but he's slightly lighter -- and the FS doesn't last forever, naturally; however, he can't suck up people in this mode, and instead uses that weird projectile from Dream Land 3 from when he fought Dark Matter/0). Hilarious dude, this one is.

@Ridley: Should definitely be one of the tallest characters, if not THE tallest... either before or after Bowser/Ganondorf, no question. I mean, he IS big in his games, on par with Bowser. He deserves that much.

@Deoxys: This one's a tough one to comment on... Should he be given the ability to shift forms at will, allowing him a total of 4 different "character" forms (annoying, I'm sure), or rather... should he just shift forms to concur with the attacks he's using? As in, Speed Forme for when he runs/does some speedier moves... Defense Forme for blocking, dodging, the like (perhaps used for one of the B moves or so), Attack Forme for a majority of other attacks, and Normal Forme for when idle/using simple-standard A moves and such.

@Tingle: Should've been Midn- *assassinated*
(FS... Didn't he have that one game where he had that strange last boss to fight, and he could fly or something? Anyway, give him projectile rupees. That's all I got.)

[Cshad]

So
I take it
You didn't read the first post
or any other topic

[supportbros]

So
I take it
You didn't read the first post
or any other topic

If I missed something, please do say. By "group", I assumed it meant discussion could be brought up, so long as it was a whole/had other points prior driven by other members in the topic... unless we're taking this one character at a time, which is what I probably missed.

[Koopaul]

Back in the 64 version Ness was always going to have PK Starstorm. If anyone gets a new FS its Lucas.

As for Toon Link I believe his moves shouldn't be too gimmicky. No pulling out items for Forward smashes and stuff. Just stick with the sword. Leave gimmicks to B moves.

Jigglypuff's Sing? I'd say make the waves grow bigger the more damage she has. Also the move while still can't make people sleep in the air it can create a "super shield" A "super shield" as many smash goers call it, is when someone still takes damage but does not flinch or get blasted away. Much like Ike's B up.