(07-15-2010, 08:55 PM)Gnostic WetFart Wrote: on the subject of symphony of the night:

http://www.chapelofresonance.com/articles/symphony.html

an action button type "review" done by one of the reviewers at action button (my bud diplo) for a castlevania fansite

I really, REALLY hate reviews like this.

Not even the fucking CREATORS went that in-depth into the game.

which is sort of the point, that
the creators don't actually understand what was Genuinely Good about Symphony, which is why the subsequent metroidvanias frankly kind of suck (save for ecclesia harmony and aria, but even then they don't really compare, and ecclesia is good for different reasons)

furthermore
a.) thats kind of a blind assertion (if it weren't for the subsequent metroidvanias, anyway); what makes you think you know how in-depth the creators of the game were thinking? your perspective follows in the same incredibly dumb anti-intellectualist mindset that is unfortunately rather prevalent in america. you know, the whole 'woooah man thats TOO much, lol, what are you thinking???' which is often lobbied at people Actually Trying or who bother to Actually Care about something

b.) lets assume they didn't think that in-depth about their games. what kind of excuse is that, specifically? at what point does that excuse actually mean anything for people who do?

lol "i'm not going to actually analyze the content or arguments of this piece i just see that its LONG and makes observations that go deeper than the literal or the surface-level and i view this as A BAD THING for god knows what reason"

vipershark do you think that good game design happens by accident, j/w

no but i'm pretty sure they didn't go that insanely fucking in-depth
you guys are pulling out deeper meaning than was ever intended (probably)

the funny thing is that it doesn't really go THAT in-depth. its not like he's inspecting the core mechanics to draw some kind of socio-political context for pressing the jump button, or something
honestly i'm kind of worried about you if you think this 'ultra fucking in-depth'.

my guess is you haven't actually read it and you haven't really bothered to try and read it to any legitimate extent

although i was already kind of worried b/c of the whole
SONIC 2006 WOULD'VE BEEN A GOOD GAME, IF ONLY THEY HAD FIXED THOSE GLITCHES........... thing

he explains why the game has a better aesthetic and why its level design is better, if you think that's too "in-depth" to bother understanding when wanting to talk about video games then uuuuuuuuuuuum

yes because apparently you didn't read my posts on that

have you played sonic 2006? serious question.

(i'm about to go to bed so i'm going to shorten this post from my full intent)

the game plays like the adventure games do
but the controls and physics are totally fucked up. literally 85% of the problems with the game are cheap deaths and odd behavior due to physics bugs and terrible controls

the other big problems are the loading times, too many characters, unfinished features, and (arguably) the story
the level design, graphics, and music are already there
it's just basically everything that isn't art-based isn't

if the controls and physics were fixed, the game would instantly jump from awful to decent. Just like that.
I'd even be willing to live with the loading times and stuff with the game actually in a playable state.

more details omitted because i'm tired
will finish this discussion tomorrow

the story being bad is an inarguable point; it isn't actually About Anything and imparts no moral or message, and as pure-entertainment B-movie schlock it fails to be entertaining and is just awkward creepy furry fanfiction; it's all literal events (OH NO A BAD THING HAPPENED, : SAD : ) by someone who doesn't "get it" without any sort of worthwhile context. It doesn't work as a "real" story and it doesn't work as "just fun" because it's TRYING to be a "real" story. the level design is horrid, lacking any of the kind of frictive, joyful build-up of speed present in earlier sonic games that had the good mind to keep it scarce, too, understanding that scarcity makes things more valuable. the music is merely serviceable at its high points, eye-rollingly bad (for anyone finished with puberty) buttrock at its lowest points. the graphics lack any kind of interesting style; the environments are bland (compare to the surreal, wonderfully gaudy pop art look of Sonic 1 and CD, especially the latter), the character designs are overly, awkwardly lanky and "anime"; the robots lacking any kind of recognizable traits, having been reduced from colorful evil lookalikes of various cartoony flora and fauna into generiscifibots 2.0; the side characters looking like something a 13-year-old on deviantart could've done, literally; and the uncanny valley almost-realistic-but-too-almost-for-its-own-good humans very awkwardly clashing with the anime-y bright-and-saturated cartoony animal characters.

give back a sonic game with minimal story, gorgeously colorful graphics oozing style in an aesthetically-appealing presentation with catchy music that fits with the aesthetic of the visuals featuring genres other than buttrock or overblown-american-action-movie-orchestra (or some dreadful fusion of the two), level design that takes advantage of sonic's superpower of speed as, well, a superpower, giving it a context that is meaningful and rewarding (see: the many devices through the genesis games that require sonic's unique ability to Be Really Fast in order to work which allow him to traverse portions of a level) as well as not shoving it down our throat every second (and since speed will be something careful and measured, there will be room for naturally-placed slower, more calculated platforming segments, thus removing the need for having to play as other characters to get that) which in turn with having to actually Work For It will make the speed feel more special and worthwhile; also, more measured speed distribution can make for levels where you can actually explore and shit, which can be interesting, and robot designs that have as much personality as the rest of this dream game

(btw Sonic CD meets all this criteria and more, Sonic 2k6 meets none of it and therefore in order to be a good game Sonic 2k6 would have to have so much changed that it would essentially not be Sonic 2k6 anymore)
(this is a really long post so some of it might be a bit rough i'll read this over and make it less stupid in places it needs fixing at a later time)
edit: I almost want to expand on this even more because some of this isn't explained well enough I'm wondering if i should make my own topic

(07-16-2010, 03:53 AM)Rick Ross- Level: 10 Wrote: give back a sonic game with minimal story, gorgeously colorful graphics oozing style in an aesthetically-appealing presentation with catchy music that fits with the aesthetic of the visuals featuring genres other than buttrock or overblown-american-action-movie-orchestra (or some dreadful fusion of the two), level design that takes advantage of sonic's superpower of speed as, well, a superpower, giving it a context that is meaningful and rewarding (see: the many devices through the genesis games that require sonic's unique ability to Be Really Fast in order to work which allow him to traverse portions of a level) as well as not shoving it down our throat every second (and since speed will be something careful and measured, there will be room for naturally-placed slower, more calculated platforming segments, thus removing the need for having to play as other characters to get that) which in turn with having to actually Work For It will make the speed feel more special and worthwhile; also, more measured speed distribution can make for levels where you can actually explore and shit, which can be interesting, and robot designs that have as much personality as the rest of this dream game

sonic 4

(07-16-2010, 03:57 AM)Alpha Six Wrote:

(07-16-2010, 03:53 AM)Rick Ross- Level: 10 Wrote: give back a sonic game with minimal story, gorgeously colorful graphics oozing style in an aesthetically-appealing presentation with catchy music that fits with the aesthetic of the visuals featuring genres other than buttrock or overblown-american-action-movie-orchestra (or some dreadful fusion of the two), level design that takes advantage of sonic's superpower of speed as, well, a superpower, giving it a context that is meaningful and rewarding (see: the many devices through the genesis games that require sonic's unique ability to Be Really Fast in order to work which allow him to traverse portions of a level) as well as not shoving it down our throat every second (and since speed will be something careful and measured, there will be room for naturally-placed slower, more calculated platforming segments, thus removing the need for having to play as other characters to get that) which in turn with having to actually Work For It will make the speed feel more special and worthwhile; also, more measured speed distribution can make for levels where you can actually explore and shit, which can be interesting, and robot designs that have as much personality as the rest of this dream game

sonic 4

Maybe, I doubt sonic 4 is going to be the sonic game we are all waiting for but it will be an improvement.

OH

And you know what else Order of Ecclesia could have benefited from?

MORE CRASHES

I mean, this was the *biggest* disappointment for me. There were, like, five different special crashes for Shanoa when you combined two different spells and crashed with them. Anything that wasn't compatible ended up getting the white light treatment.

If they did more creative shit with the crashes (ie. Hammer + Axe = A storm of throwing hammers maybe???), I would have *loved* that game.

there are probably more crashes than you know of? I remember I was originally disappointed with the amount of crashes (well, still am a little bit) but then I tried making slightly weirder combinations like Light + sword or Ice + Sword or Fire + Ice or Dark + Light and it opened things up a little bit more.

it could be more varied, yeah, but at the very least its serviceable and engaging enough to be worthwhile.

Quote:the level design, graphics, and music are already there

well, yes, you are right on one regard: the game certainly has level design, graphics and music!!!

(07-16-2010, 12:49 PM)Gnostic WetFart Wrote: there are probably more crashes than you know of? I remember I was originally disappointed with the amount of crashes (well, still am a little bit) but then I tried making slightly weirder combinations like Light + sword or Ice + Sword or Fire + Ice or Dark + Light and it opened things up a little bit more.

it could be more varied, yeah, but at the very least its serviceable and engaging enough to be worthwhile.

Yeah, I'm aware of the elemental stuff :C

I meant 5 crashes that were combinations rather than two of the same weapon


Dark + Light was a cool crash, though !!




also Dominus is disappointing
for something that kills Shanoa, I still want to see it actually kill enemies too

I know I got frustrated as hell against Blackmore and used Dominus since there was no way for me to beat him
and he was still standing while Shanoa collapsed
wtf

i never knew there was a Nitesco + (weapon) crash until I saw someone kill Dracula in like 30 seconds with it